Why ex-Irish star preferred ‘Faz or a Rassie’ to Joe Schmidt and the teammate who thought ‘Billy Vunipola and these English lads are tiny’
Ex-Ireland prop Dave Kilcoyne, inset, has spoken after how Joe Schmidt's Ireland style was different from Andy Farrell's
Retired Ireland prop Dave Kilcoyne has revealed the style of coach he preferred when he was involved and named the teammate who said something extraordinary about England before the 2018 Grand Slam game at Twickenham.
Now 37 and working in aviation, loosehead Kilcoyne retired following an injury suffered against Ulster in December 2024. It was no major wrench as the front-rower had considered calling it quits following his involvement with Ireland at the 2023 Rugby World Cup.
In his head, he was on the way out, so even though his last left him lying in a heap in Belfast 12 months ago, he was ready to retire and was glad he was doing it on his terms after a lengthy career. Kilcoyne felt fortunate to be able to exit that way, having had a decade and a half playing the sport at the top level compared to his friend Dan Leavy.
The Leinster and Ireland back-rower was only 27 when he retired with immediate effect in April 2022 after a complicated knee injury sustained three years earlier failed to come right.
“Joe went, ‘F*** no!’”
Appearing on What The Ruck, the Talksport Ireland rugby podcast he co-hosts, Kilcoyne spoke candidly about his retirement, its contrast to the exit of Leavy and also his friend’s admirable mindset when it came to playing rugby. Such was Leavy’s indomitable outlook that he unnerved fellow Irish teammate James Ryan in the Twickenham dressing room before Schmidt’s Ireland went out and clinched the 2018 Grand Slam.
“I was lucky enough to get to this age,” said Kilcoyne, beginning his retirement segment before going on to tell stories about Leavy. “It was time for me. I broke my shoulder after the 2023 World Cup, and when I got back, I snapped my Achilles. It was time for a change, and I had thought about retiring after the World Cup. I said I’d do one more year, and then I did that. So, I had contentment, and when you are ready for change, it is easy.
“I think back to someone like a Dan Leavy, with whom I am great friends. You talk about great characters; he was brilliant. Unbelievable player, unbelievable mindset. Dan was a player who had everything in front of him in terms of being probably one of the best sevens.
“You had Sean O’Brien, Wally [David Wallace], him, now Josh (van der Flier). At the time, he was unbelievable. He played 11 games for Ireland and won all 11. He had a mindset where he was always supremely confident.
“We had a camp in Galway, and Joe Schmidt was in at the time. It was when we played the 20s, and you’d go in, and there were three questions everyone had to think about: what are you going to bring to the team, what do you need to work on and something else. It was like going into Alan Sugar’s boardroom on The Apprentice.
“You had Joe in the middle, with Faz [Andy Farrell], Feeky [Greg Feek], Les Kiss all circled around, and Joe was like the Pope. He was like, ‘Well, what are you going to work on, Dan?’ Dan was like, ‘Oh, I am pretty much the complete seven.’ Joe went, ‘F*** no!’ By all accounts, he nearly threw the pen at Dan.
“Joe was very much a different type of coach; he had his system, and it was more about the system than focusing on players’ strengths. Every coaching philosophy is different, but it wouldn’t have been one I would have most enjoyed training under.
“I would love the Faz or a Rassie (Erasmus at Munster) who would (encourage you to) bring your unique selling point to the team within the team and express yourself and be yourself. But yeah, Dan was very much like his own man. He was an animal wrecking ball.
“To get back to the (retirement) story, I got to that age (mid-30s). But if you look at someone like Dan, he was cut down at such a young age and had so much unlived potential. I hate saying that because he lived up to his massive potential; he could have been playing for years at that level.
“But I have no reason to ever look back in any way bad or with harsh feelings. For me, it was time and for that I am very grateful. Lying in a heap at Kingspan Stadium probably isn’t on your own terms, but in your own mental terms, head-wise, it was.”
Before moving on with the show, Kilcoyne felt compelled to offer up one further example of the way Leavy looked at the game. “We’re talking about mindset and stuff; I’d be great friends with James Ryan. Cheese, they call him, and that is how I really got good friends with Dan. The three of us were in a WhatsApp group for years, and we used to go for food and stuff, two St Michael’s boys and a lad from Ard Scoil. I know, not a great mix, but it worked.
“James was telling me before the 2018 Grand Slam game in England, he was calling the lineout and it was the biggest game of his life, a young fella who had just broken through. James would be a bit of a nervous character before the games; he cares so much and would be prepared so much. He was nearly getting sick before the game, he said, with nerves, which is very normal with people.
“He told me, Dan came up to him and goes, ‘Geez, the English look tiny’. He was looking at his jersey and said, ‘I feel massive in this jersey.’ Cheese was, ‘Get away from me, I can’t deal with you now’. But that just shows you the mindset, the different mindsets in the game. You have people from all different backgrounds, different provinces, but the different mindsets are hilarious.
“You had one fella getting sick with nerves that he is going, can he remember the calls? And you have another fella going over saying that the XL jersey is tight on him, and he is looking over at Billy Vunipola and these lads and thinking they are tiny. It just shows you Dan’s mindset. Everybody was probably tiny compared to Dan, but it worked for Dan.”
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