Expert Witness: Former Wales international Mark Jones on their ‘great opportunity’ to finally beat the All Blacks

James While

With Wales hosting New Zealand in one of the biggest games this weekend, Planet Rugby’s James While spoke to former Welsh winger and Crusaders and Worcester Warriors coach, 47-times capped Mark Jones, to get his views on the clash in Cardiff.

Best opportunity

“Yes, this is really a great opportunity for Wales to record that elusive win against the All Blacks (having not beaten them since 1953). New Zealand’s recent form over the last 12/18 months has given a lot of teams that sense that perhaps their aura is flickering a little bit. Teams are not necessarily beaten before the take the field as perhaps we’ve seen in recent years” Jones said.

“Argentina and Australia have both shown the Kiwis are vulnerable and I think Japan have shown last weekend that they’re capable of causing New Zealand problems with the right type of game. I was chatting to a couple of people around this the other day at a mini rugby level locally, and I was saying they’re a fantastic team, but the fact is just they haven’t been the 93/94% win rate team over the few years.

“They still win more way more than the average international team and I think they’ve learned a lot over the last few years around not peaking between World Cups. They are a lot more comfortable with their periodization now around getting the team to where it needs to be, but I also think they’ve been searching a bit for that front five formula and the right midfield formula, which hasn’t been as settled as it has been in previous campaigns.”

Slow starters

“Wales’ challenge over the years has been they’ve never started the autumn series particularly well. but they’ve always finished the campaign strongly because they tend to evolve and gain that team cohesion,” he said.

“One of the features of Test rugby in recent years is we’re seeing bigger scores and many more tries. I’m not sure it’s that teams just aren’t defending as well as they did, but one influence is with recent HIA directives – squads don’t have the time in contact defence training as they once did.

“I’ve been around a few different environments and I know when Warren Gatland came in into Wales, he knew he was walking into a Six Nations tournament on the back of a poor World Cup. We spent 80% of our time on defence and we ended up actually looked like a team that had done precisely that for a long period!

“We were lucky that we had talented players who could then produce the miracle plays if the scoreboard was close in tight games, such as that game against England in 2008 when Mike Phillips and James Hook stepped up with a couple of moments of genius.

“But there’s no doubt that teams now have recognised that you have to score points to win games and keeping a team to 15 points in international rugby isn’t enough. You need to score 30 points to win a game of Test rugby in this day and age.

“There’s no doubt an emphasis has gone away from trying to slow the game down to actually trying to live and survive in the speed of the modern game. Nowadays, it’s a spectacle – the spectators want to see a fast and safe game, so the laws have adapted to that.”

Top tips

“The balance of the Welsh back-row will be interesting to see and with the world-class Justin Tipuric back as skipper, we might just see him on the blindside flank with Tommy Reffell at seven,” Jones said.

“One player doesn’t make a team but Reffell was outstanding in the summer. I think the South Africans are such a ‘speed of ball’ team through their forward carries, they just absolutely tread you into the ground and he was crucial at slowing the speed of Springbok ball and allowing the Welsh defence the opportunity to get two or three tackles in front of every ball carrier. He’s such a smart defender and makes brilliant decisions – he chooses the right tackle at the right time and he chooses the right ruck to dip into and contest.

“But to go back to the point around two sevens, I was lucky enough to be coaching in Wales when Justin, Sam Warburton and Taulupe Faletau were first selected as a unit together. Not everybody was convinced by that initially, but it worked, with Sam switching to six, which was probably his optimal position. Tips, like Sam, will lead by his actions; he’s one of those that doesn’t speak too much but when he speaks obviously everybody listens – he has that level of gravitas.

“Justin also has got a brilliant temperament. He never gets flustered considering he’s at the coalface all the time getting slammed and banged and targeted. His discipline is outstanding and his emotional control is excellent. And it goes without saying that his attacking skill set is pretty much without peer from a back-row’s point of view in the northern hemisphere.”

Rees-Zammit

“Louis Rees-Zammit will be absolutely crucial for Wales and has gone up another level completely for Gloucester in the Premiership this year. I think with any young player that comes on the scene like that and catches everybody’s eye, which he did with his attacking game, you’re almost always going, ‘well, where’s the weakness?!” quipped Jones.

“Where’s the area that international teams haven’t found out yet? And I suppose, in fairness, there were a few chinks in his defensive armour. Louis has really gone back to basics after the Lions tour and said: ‘I want to be the complete rugby player, the complete back three player.’ You’re now seeing his evolution as he’s definitely more confident in the air and his shoulders are definitely a little bit heavier in the tackles.

“Scarily, if he keeps that mentality for the next seven or eight years, he could end up like a Bryan Habana-type defensive player. Bryan hardly got any credit for his defence, but ironically his ‘D’ was in some ways even better than his attack – he was so good at picking intercept reads in defensive shapes. People never talked about Habana’s defence because of his electric pace, and I think Rees-Zammit can be the same.

“In attack, he’s got the one thing that you can’t defend against, which is pure pace. If you show him the outside, he’s going to take probably eight or nine wingers out of 10 in the world and with improved aerial and contact work, and better teamwork in offload and passing, he’s on his way to becoming a complete winger.”

All Black threats

“I’m really fortunate to have spent a season at Crusaders as defence coach working with Richie Mo’unga. Obviously, I was looking at more of his defensive game than I was his attacking game, but the way that we worked at the Crusaders was always with a cross-pollinated environment, which means that you’re always involved with other aspects of the game rather than just the area you’re responsible for.

“Richie is paramount to New Zealand in terms of the tactical kicking battle. As much as they score tries, they would always play smart against the big teams – the South African teams and so on. New Zealand place great emphasis on exiting well, a crucial component of the Test environment, which suggests that where you play the game dictates who wins.

“When New Zealand have come unstuck, it’s when they’ve lost that territory battle and in particular that aerial drop zone contest. If you look at the first Test when they lost to South Africa pretty heavily and then they came under a bit of pressure, Ian Foster turned to Richie to stop the rot, which is exactly what he did.

“In the next Test, they put a couple of kicks in really early and it just changed the defensive mindset of the South Africans and it exposed their line speed – all of a sudden the All Blacks were able to play more because the wingers were a little deeper due to those attacking kicks on the edges and the crossfield kicks.

“He’s a real student of the game and his emotional control is phenomenal. I am a big fan and he will be pivotal on Saturday. It is all about where they play their rugby and Richie makes sure they don’t play high risk rugby in the back third of the field.

“The New Zealand approach is interesting. Your job as a defence coach isn’t to keep the scoreboard low but to provide the great attacking opportunities from defence because we know the opposition are at the most vulnerable at that moment.

“Part of my remit with the Crusaders was, ‘how do we get the ball back for us to attack?’ The kicking strategy was paramount to that and how we tied that in with the attack strategy was my main role. The coaches are smart and their understanding of the game is quite phenomenal.”

Big calls

“Tactically, I’ll be interested to see how Wales approach this. I expect Will Rowlands and Adam Beard both to start, with the potential to use Alun Wyn Jones as a close-off finisher off the bench. The front-row battle will be crucial; Tyrel Lomax and Ethan de Groot were great finds for the Kiwis in the summer and it’s key Wales compete there.

“Hopefully with the roof closed and with the Cardiff atmosphere, Wales will find their feet. It’ll all be about the opening exchanges and also controlling that key period from 40mins to 50mins, where often NZ can change the course of a Test match. I’m hopeful of course but will Wales have enough? I am not sure but I expect it to be a crackerjack of a Test match to light up Bonfire Night.”

We thank Mark for his time.

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