England greats get stuck into ‘just feels weird’ Steve Borthwick set-up and call for ‘world class’ recruit after latest ‘pants down’ loss
England's defending was caught short in South Africa, renewing speculation that Shaun Edwards, inset, should be brought into the fold
Retired England pair Mike Tindall and James Haskell have called into question the current coaching set-up under Steve Borthwick, demanding that he address the “big elephant in the room” following their latest defeat.
Borthwick’s struggling team suffered its fifth successive loss last Saturday when beaten 45-21 by South Africa in Johannesburg, reigniting the criticism generated by their woeful fifth-place finish in the 2026 Six Nations.
England are now in Liverpool, looking to pick up the pieces when they take on Fiji next Saturday in the second round of the Nations Championship before flying to Argentina for the July 18 match that will complete their summer schedule.
Defence has been a regular concern ever since Borthwick succeeded Eddie Jones as head coach, and a succession of different people – Kevin Sinfield, Felix Jones, Joe El-Abd and Richard Wigglesworth – have filled the defence coach role.
“There is something not right in the system…”
While Jones exited to rejoin the Springboks, Sinfield and El-Abd remain on Borthwick’s staff in different roles and Wigglesworth, who started as an attack coach, is now in charge of the defence that has given up 24 tries and 189 points in the current five-match losing run.
Having watched England getting thumped by a 24-point margin of defeat in South Africa, 2003 Rugby World Cup winner Tindall and 77-cap veteran Haskell got stuck into the worrying situation on the latest edition of The Good, The Bad & The Rugby show.
Tindall began: “The defence is one to focus on because of how many points they have shelled through the Six Nations to this. There were seven tries in this game, and I would almost say you can take the last nine minutes out where they were with 13 men because you have lost a forward and a back; there is literally nothing you can do.
“Your pants are down, but still they shelled five before and 10 line breaks. If you are getting 10 clean line breaks, there is something not right in the system.
“Now we have talked about this after the Six Nations, defining the roles of coaches of what they are responsible for. These use this word transition a lot… our transition was awful. We didn’t get up to contest for balls; we always lost the ball on the floor. Is that a detail thing we are getting wrong?
“And then there is a big sort of guy in the corner, Shaun Edwards, who is available. There is a big elephant in the room in the fact that he is available, and we know how good he is, but the RFU have never wanted to go and get him.”
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Haskell interjected: “I don’t know what Steve Borthwick is like as a head coach; I can only go on what the guys say, and everyone is very content on how he does things and the way he is in the environment he has created.
“Do I think Shaun is someone who needs a strong personality with him to get the best out of him? Yes, I think so. Do I think Shaun is a head coach? I don’t know if he is. For me, he is the best at what he does, and he is a weapon that needs to be focused in the right direction and he is a very comfortable in that role.
“If you have got any bits that are going to make you better, that is one of them. Picking Jack Willis is another one. Shaun Edwards, Jack Willis, that’s a pretty heavy combination. You have to pick the best tools available.
“Shaun Edwards is world-class with a pedigree and experience that will only add to your team. Loyalty is important in sport, but the guys in there have to understand that if Shaun Edwards is on the market (after finishing with France) and is available, would he add? 100 per cent.”
What has particularly exasperated Tindall is Borthwick’s penchant to generally move his assistants into different roles rather than move them on. The result has left the defence coach position in a state of flux.
“They shift coaching around defence all the time… you need to see progression, and really defensively we haven’t seen progression, so what they are doing isn’t working for them,” he said.
“You would say that has to change or we will still be here in the autumn series and going well, why have we shelled 40 points here? That hasn’t changed, so whatever they have been doing hasn’t shown up and made a difference. When they had 15 men on the field for 70 minutes, they were still getting breached.
“When they won 12 on the bounce they only allowed 1.9 points per visit to their 22 but in the Six Nations it’s up near four to five, so how has that swarming defence, which used to be one of their strongest assets, that gave them more attacking ball back because you were creating problems and loose balls that you could dive on, where has that gone and why has that gone?
“That is a question you can’t answer, and all you can point to is people shifting around. If you are coached by three different coaches within two years, you have got someone coming in telling you something completely different.”
Haskell agreed. “You need to have something settled. You have to buy into it and you have to repeat it because excellence is something you have to revisit every day. When you chop and change and you have different contributors, it affects the way that you play.”
Tindall added: “Between their four walls they are probably fully defined (roles), but I don’t think we have ever seen fully defined what every coach does. Some have coached in other bits before but are still around and that just feels weird to me.”
Haskell replied: “In terms of coaches that we have gone after, Felix Jones was probably the only one that you would say was a world-class addition. Richard Wigglesworth will be a world-class coach, but he has been coaching a relatively short space of time.
“Steve Borthwick was part of Eddie Jones’ regime. When Eddie Jones was at his best, he had himself, Steve Borthwick, Paul Gustard, Neal Hatley. England under Eddie Jones, they approached Simon Amor. I like Simon but not a world-class coach. Joe El-Abd, not a world-class coach. A very good coach but not world-class. All these guys are growing into roles.
“Putting Shaun Edwards in would be a world-class addition to your set-up. Dave Rennie coming into New Zealand is a world-class option. Adding Tony Brown to a set-up is a world-class option. Joe Schmidt is a world-class option.
“Like, (England attack coach) Les Blackett, unbelievable. Is he world-class? He will be. He has got all the potential, but he hasn’t got a lot of time and pedigree at international rugby. If you are employing someone who has a proven world-class, international pedigree, Shaun Edwards is an amazing addition to any side.”
While England’s latest humbling setback has resulted in renewed calls that Borthwick should be replaced as head coach, Haskell insisted it shouldn’t be change just for change’s sake. “When people say about getting rid of Steve Borthwick, I am like, who would you put in place?
“People say (Phil) Dowson and (Sam) Vesty. Do I think they will be world-class coaches one day? Yes. Do you have to coach international rugby to understand that? Yes. Is it a step up from the Premiership to international rugby? 100 per cent.
“If you got rid of Steve Borthwick, unless you can get a Michael Cheika, a Wayne Smith, an Andy Farrell, a Shaun Edwards, a Joe Schmidt, they are guys who have got proven, proven pedigree; they are world-class additions. Filling out your coaching staff with guys that do really well, that have potential is not the same as employing someone that is a guaranteed, certified world beater.”
Haskell finished up the segment by stressing: “Do I think that bringing in Shaun Edwards into a defensive position (would help)? Absolutely. Is defence the easiest win in the field? Yes, because you have the ball, you don’t have to really think, you don’t have to have a skill execution.
“All you have got to have is heart, organisation, communication and desire to f*** someone up. That is essentially the difference.
“When Eddie Jones came in, the one thing he sat down and said was England rugby has gone away from its identity. It’s trying to play like New Zealand and, with all due respect, none of you have got the skill to play like New Zealand.
“You are trying to play rugby league because you had Stuart Lancaster, rugby league fan, you had Andy Farrell, Mike Ford, you had all these guys who were ex-rugby league players.
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“You need to f***ing play to a skill set which is big set-piece, aggressive defence, forward momentum and attack will take of itself. Do South Africa have an identity as a side? Yes. Brute physicality with now an arsenal of skill outside and a s*** ton of experience and ability. Do England have an identity? I’m not sure.
“Would it be better if England put all their cards in one place and back themselves? Yeah. Do I think England could be a much more brutal, physical team with a different defence? Yes. Do I think they have the heart to do that? Yes. Do I think they are playing like that? No.
“I look at England and go, if you had a defensive system that got the best out of these players and made it one-on-one physical battle, would England be better? Yeah. Do I think we have a defensive system that is allowing them to do that? Not at the moment.”
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