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Actually, I'm just being a bit petty now. I apologise for the offensive things I said. I just feel some views on here are only one tiny step away from racism, and it very much annoys me.
But your a rugby fan, so you can't be 'that' bad. :)
Posted 09:28 30th April 2012
Ouch! Another rock!
lol, we started slavery? The practise that's been around for 1000s of years, used by many ancient civilisations? Brilliant stuff again Trader, now back into the cave please.
The editor says.... @ EVERYONE. Let's stick to rugby guys - rugby!!!
Posted 09:15 30th April 2012
Did you...did you just use the largest empire in history as an example of how unsuccessful England is? Wow, your good...
Multicultural history only over the last 10 years? Do you not know any history about this country? England has always has huge links with the whole of Europe. If anything you could maybe say that it's mainly over the last 100 years we've been greatly diversifying.
Maybe they should teach you a bit more history in school, rather than teaching cavemen like yourself how to use a computer. Why don't you retreat back to your cave, and throw rocks at all the scary strangers?
This is not a dig at New Zealand by the way, I love New Zealand. They make rugby in an art form, and every New Zealander I have met has been wonderfully friendly and good fun. It's a shame people like you ruin their reputation, but that's the internet for you I guess.
Posted 16:06 29th April 2012
All this nationality rubbish is so tiring. Where do you say someone is from? Is it where their born? Is it where their genes come from? Is it where they have lived longest? What if people have a mixture? If anyone thinks they can put definite boundaries on these issues, then they are almost certainly ignorant fools.
As to England recruiting foreign experts to improve our team, that's just common sense. It you study a bit of history, you'll learn that countries/empires that became too inward looking stagnated and ultimately failed. England has a very rich multicultural history, and it's probably the reason why we've been so successful in so many things for such a small country. We try and get the best in whatever field, and bring them into the fold to improve ourselves.
This is how we do things, and the success of these types of policies is the reason why your countries seek to steal highly skilled, educated workers from other countries. Oh wait, it's not stealing, it seems like people have the free will to move anywhere and work for who they want to work for. It's almost like some of the caveman views of nationality expressed on here don't matter to the wider world...It's almost like you're wrong.
Posted 19:09 28th April 2012
What was all that about? Beside the point, I thought. Or perhaps you really don't understand what I was talking about.
You certainly know next to nothing about NZ sport. OK, there's no reason you should know much, but don't assume that the little you know about the outside world (in this case, NZ sport equals rugby) is all there is to know. That kind of assumption is an especially British form of ignorance.
Posted 13:02 28th April 2012
@sandal this isn't really the platform for this but probably needs saying.
A brief history of the world - over the last 3 or 4 hundred years. the world milliatary and economic power base was in Europe (predominantly Britain France Spain and Holland). Over a period of a couple of hundred years, most of the world (rightly or wrongly) was colonised or conquered by these powers.
Whilst these empires have largely collapsed and the power shifted (perhaps expectedly) to the most populous countries, this has only really happened in the last 2 or 3 generations, and some countries (specifically Australia and South Africa) have actively encouraged immigration until very recently.
The result, large numbers of ex-pat britons in various countries around the world who still consider themselves British and who will still don their Lions/6 Nations shirts every time theier respective homeland comes touring (as happens in England every time Pakistan cricket visits even though many of the supporters are 3rd or 4th generation) The upshot is that European sides can call on a larger global population qualified to play for them than other commonwealth sides. GB, mainly in the commonwealth, the French from North and East Africa.
I agree that there is something slightly uncomfortable about individuals coming over here to do their 3 years but their record of success is limited (Hape, Vainikolo, Waldrom) but that is what it is. By and large the overseas born players have qualified based on ancestry or passport. The topic is getting a little boring.
The clubs in England and France have to staff 12 and 14 elite franchises respectively, how many do the s15 nations or Celtic league?.
I should say that its a testament to NZ rugby that players developed there probably have representation in most of the worlds top nations, but then, its the only sport that they can really crow about.
Posted 10:52 28th April 2012
Also England got better when the "won a world cup" gang had all gone. I think it is very important Smith does not join. No disrespect; he is fantastic.
Posted 10:24 28th April 2012
Then as an England fan I hope he stays with chiefs. No egos is the message in the new England. If Smith is too big for his co- coaches best avoid as the dynamic will be ruined.
Posted 10:20 28th April 2012
Jamie the prop was not back stabbing. Just an alternative view, I agree with. Catt is the way to go.
Posted 10:16 28th April 2012
there is no way smith will work under anybody, what a joke that would be. it would be a massive downgrade from coaching the chiefs backs thats for sure.it would be like bill gates going to work at JB hi fi
Posted 07:44 28th April 2012
@artherfish and jameslivesinhope
I do not think England alone are to blame for this trend of buying in overseas skills rather than developing and using one's own. In rugby, others such as Wales and the French and Irish clubs have also been bad. But why do England, one of the two most powerful, wealthy, asset-rich and populous rugby nations, need to be plundering other unions?
I had thought the achievements of Stuart Lancaster as interim coach, the fans' clamour for his permanent appointment, and that eventual appointment had signalled a return to more solid values in English rugby. Well, it didn't last long did it.
OK, so England's approach is legal. But distinctions between right and wrong are determined by more than just the letter of the law. Decency, pride, honesty, self-respect, honour also play a hand. You are telling me those qualities went out the window with professionalism? Nonsense. And you are telling me we all have to give up on true international competition? Again, nonsense.
Life for you might be a matter simply of buying whatever you can and doing whatever you can get away with. I still believe rugby, almost everywhere, is guided by more than the letter of the law, that the big and powerful ought still to make concessions to the small and weak, and not seek to exploit those concessions themselves.
OK, I have my head in the sand. And England, in sport after sport after sport, is drawing derision on itself.
Posted 05:52 28th April 2012
@Jamietheprop - re >How hard can it be to coach the talent that is the New Zealand backline with their natural running game!
It's actually quite hard.
Teams packed with All Black backlines that have failed at Super 15 include the Blues this year, the Chiefs for about five years running, and so on.
The best example was last year's World Cup, where the Hurricanes backline was on the field for the finals and proved instrumental in NZ's winning the World Cup. But the Hurricanes themselves in 2011 were very very ordinary.
Posted 23:47 27th April 2012
@ JamieTheProp - I agree about Catt. Let's see how he gets on with the SA Tour and go from there. After-all, that's what we did for SL - gave him the 6N to start with.
Another option might be Will Greenwood. His talent as a player is undeniable (even from those of you with a terrible anti-English bias!), and his coaching on School of Hard Knocks is raw but effective.
@ davodiablo - I don't think the leaked report can count as "back-stabbing". Incompetent? Absolutely! But the players were asked for their honest opinions in confidence. It's not back-stabbing if the intent had been to use the feedback in a positive manner. The leaking of the reports caused the situation we're in now.
@ marzie - "...essential mediocrity of the playing staff..." Really?! Raw? Yes. Inexperienced? Very. Mediocre? No. There's some undeniably rude talent in the EPS and not a lot of hype to live up to. In fact, English rugby is just about dragging itself up from the RWC mire and the recent success (yes, success) in the 6N has gone some way towards that.
@ sandal - I don't disagree that many people have left their "homeland" to join the elite of England, but we're certainly not alone in that. Many international teams - yours included - have people playing for them using the IRB eligibility rules, not place of birth.
@ colvin - "...the strutting and preening England..." What?! I haven't seen any of that since SL took over. "No more high flying dives for a try" - there was some debate about this. But it does seem to acceptable in Super rugby to dance! A dive is daft, dancing is just poncy. "no more disrespect to opponents." What are you on about? "In the case of the English supporters no more disrespect to the All Blacks Haka." Again, what are you on about? Back in your box, sunshine. Hating England is one thing. Ill-informed nonsense is another.
Posted 11:45 27th April 2012
Saddly the amount of rude words i would like to post at the anti English xenaphobic and un called for rubish that has been posted here would not get through the moderator/editor.
@Sandal go put your head back in the sand. Don't go blaming the English for global trends in profesional sport. We are far from alone in finding that the free movment of profesional sportsman can blur the line of national elagbility. We like everyone else follow the IRB laws. Other nations do so with equal gusto when it suits but only England are ever critssised. If you have a problem with it like has been said many times before go get the IRB to change the rules like you do when other aspects of the game don't suit you.(Ie when us cheeting horrid english go and start winning the game we invented!!!)
There are as many if not more English fans posting for an English coach as there are for an outsider !!!. Cat played all his rugby for England coaches in England and would fit better if you ask me. Why bring in a guy who may feel he knows more about how things should be than his boss. How much is this Stuart L wanting him, or being told he needs a cup winner in his team. Dont do it stuart don't let a cookoo in the nest.
To all the sensible and moderat folowers of rugby of whatever nation i apologies for my rant.
Posted 11:09 27th April 2012
Difficult decision for Wayne Smith. He seems to love the challenge of coaching. And in many respects to change the whole attitute of the strutting and preening England would be one that a purist like Wayne would love. No more high flying dives for a try; no more disrespect to opponents. In the case of the English supporters no more disrespect to the All Blacks Haka. There's so much that needs correcting. Probably it needs an Englishman to fix it. Wayne is a New Zealand icon. He needs to be kept in NZ.
Posted 10:31 27th April 2012
@sandal, I think no-one is talking about it because its not relevant to the thread.
Even PR, who seem to have enjoyed stirring that particular pot from time to time have realised that most posters have accepted that it is what it is now and everyone would rather talk about rugby.
Posted 10:17 27th April 2012
@kinsman - Lancaster was on TV last night, looks as though terms have been offered to Smith in pretty well exactly the same role as Andy Farrell had.
The context of his remarks seem to suggest that he had considered the Head Coach role but didn't feel that it fit with either his perception of what a head coach should be or what he wanted it to be.
It feels like, from Smith's remarks and other stuff I've read, that the RFU see the Head Coach role as an overseer rather than a trainer (lets face it, players are selected at the top of their game, they don't need someone to tell them how to pass and catch) SCW and MJ seemed to delegate the job of day-to-day coaching supervision to Andy Robinson and Brian Smith respectively (the latter probably being his downfall).
I agree with Smith's remarks about the Head coach being English, but also agree with the need for some non-english thinking within the coaching ranks
Posted 09:47 27th April 2012
No one in this thread is talking about a major issue. What has become of English and British sport?
International sport used to be a contest between different countries and different cultures. This is how it was: when Ajax played Bayern Munich for the European Cup in 1973, something like 17 of the players contested the World Cup final the following year. That was because in 1973 Ajax were a Dutch team, Bayern a German team. And look at European football now. Which multinational band of mercenaries represents your town? Who cares?
That is just clubs. But it is happening in national teams. Especially England's teams. Years now of foreign football coaches. Foreign cricket coaches and foreign cricket players. Foreign rugby players and now perhaps another foreign rugby coach. England is undermining the very concept of international sport: that "England" represent England, "South Africa" represent South Africa and so on. And more than that. That "England" are in fact England, "South Africa" really are South Africa.
I find all the English here desperate for the RFU to buy in overseas expertise pathetic. "Go England-South Africa-New Zealand-anyone-else-who-might-be-useful!" Is that what you cheer when you go to Twickenham? Because "Go England" is fast becoming a joke and a lie.
England are (with France) one of the two most powerful, wealthy and populous rugby nations. Why the hell can't they find their own coaches, develop their own game? Leave the developing nations to get in foreign aid.
Any success England might achieve in future by buying up their opponents' strength will be meaningless.
And don't anyone tell me that what England are doing is the nature of professional sport. That is facile thinking. Rugby doesn't have to become a soulless, moneyed travisty just because it's professional. Honour and pride still exist, even if you're English.
Posted 07:29 27th April 2012
There appears to me to be some confusion in this article and in the corresponding comments.....
Firstly it appears Smith has been offered a role with the English team by Stuart Lancaster. He then goes on to make a comment (without context) about the head coach role which is likely from a previous approach prior to Lancaster being appointed.
Also, it again comments on the attack coach role at the Chiefs where the primary focus that Smith is bringing to the Chiefs is in a defense role, akin to the role he played with the All Blacks in the RWC. Henry took on the role of backs coach there.
With Catt having been offered an interim role with England to cover the SA series and Smith being tied to the Chiefs until after Super Rugby (and the SA series) it appears to me pretty likely conversations have been positive and Smith will take the role post SR.
A somewhat confusing and poorly written piece in my opinion unless it was designed to create confusion.
Posted 05:02 27th April 2012
Much like the England football manager's job, enough hot air is expended to blind everyone to the essential mediocrity of the playing staff and by the same rule, absolve them of any blame for their inevitable failure to live up to the hype. It is a circle and it is vicious.
Posted 20:52 26th April 2012
|All times are local|
|Sunday , May 26|
|England vs Barbarians|
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|Consur XV vs England||19:30|
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|USA vs Ireland||01:30|
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|Japan vs Wales||14:00|
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