Heineken Cup: Falling apart?
The Heineken Cup appears to be nearing its end after BT Vision boss Marc Watson revealed that a new competition is in the pipeline.
Following on from the groundbreaking £152m deal with Premiership Rugby that includes live broadcast rights for European games played by English clubs for three years from 2014, further doubt has been cast over a tournament that has already been rocked by news that English and French sides are threatening to walk away.
The clubs are unhappy with RaboDirect PRO12 outfits' recent glory and believe it's partly a result of a qualification system which allows them to rest their players during their league term. And chief executive Watson has now added to the speculation that the Cup is nearing a crossroads.
"We are looking to set up, or at least help set up, a dazzling new European tournament with a fantastic new format, with, we hope, all the best clubs," he told sportspromedia.com.
"And we've secured, from the English Premiership, the rights to that for the UK.
"That tournament will be the successor to the Heineken Cup, which is a very successful tournament.
"The Heineken Cup, under its current contract, has another season to run, and that will be the end of it, and we are looking to set up a brand new tournament from then.
"We saw in rugby an opportunity to own a sport exclusively, certainly at club level, and the rights that we've bought give us an opportunity to do that.
"We are hosting the Rugby World Cup in 2015 in the UK. It's a great opportunity in the two years running up to that, we think, to grow the sport.
"It's a sport that has got a long way to go. We were attracted by the idea of growing with it, and helping it to grow in the UK."
Comments
Scan says...
These things go through 'eras' all the time. Look at Toulouse's period of dominance back in the day. The Irish provinces were nothing back in the early years of the heineken. Toulouse won it just TWO YEARS AGO. What have the Ospreys, Cardiff Blues, Dragons, Scarlets, Glasgow, Treviso or Aironi/Zebre done in the competition in the last few seasons?
Nothing.
Munster won 2. Leinster won 3. Ulster made a final. Edinburgh beat Toulouse.
The French are doing just fine. Toulouse are the Real Madrid of rugby and Clermont were EASILY the number 2 side in Europe last year. Other than those 2, Stade and Toulon none of the rest of the clubs care about (or are in the position to really compete in) Europe.
The English clubs are just going through a dry spell. Not even that dry a spell. Leicester and Northampton have both competed in finals the last few years. Only Sarries were good enough to compete in that period anyway, and Quins will probably do so in future now too (maybe even Exeter).
Premiership Rugby are a disgrace. Between this farce and the whole promotion-relegation fiasco they have really made idiots out of themselves. This will tear apart the best club/provincial/regional tournament in the WORLD (sorry Super Rugby).
Posted 17:11 13th September 2012
jamesliveinhope says...
@rugby_rockstar - slightly inaccurate, you actually have a lucrative and competitive league of club franchises playing in a lucrative and competitive league being asked to compete in a less lucrative competition where the clubs of other unions were neither lucrative or particularly competitive.
The financial success of the HC is dependent on the French and English presence yet, as a result of the financial failure of the club structure in the other unions are being asked to compete on a decreasingly level playing field - in short, instead of playing Bridgend or Pontypridd they now play regional super-clubs, instead of playing clubs who have worked hard to qualify for a competition, they face regions who's qualification is a given by virtue of their nationality who gain a greater income from European success than their domestic competition and, with an absence of relegation can afford to manage their squads according to their chosen priority.
In short, the HC is more dependant on the English and French than vice versa - is is not financially viable to run your squads into the ground in support of a competition that benefits the opposition more than it benefits you.
Its a shame, because I like the HC but it can't continue as it is.
Posted 17:06 13th September 2012
rugby_rockstar says...
Does Ritchie McCaw play every Air New Zealand Cup Match? No.
Does Jean Devilliers play every Curry Cup Match? No.
Does Brian O'Driscoll play every Pro 12 match? No.
and so what? its called looking after your players. This system is world wide and it works. how can it be right for English clubs to force irish rugby to run their start players into the ground???
PRL need to stop trying to force the celts to put square wheels on their carts and maybe get with the program and use the same successful model. and if they don't want to then maybe the RFU ought to think and bringing in a sucessful elite model over the top of them.
Posted 16:51 13th September 2012
bedlam9999 says...
"It's a sport that has got a long way to go. We were attracted by the idea of growing with it, and helping it to grow in the UK."
so he just totally contradicted himself, since when does premiership rugby encompass the UK
Posted 16:27 13th September 2012
papachinzo says...
This amuses me greatly. Nothing sounds more appealing than the "BT Cup".
I wonder how long it'll take the French to back down, and re-join the H-Cup.
Posted 16:22 13th September 2012
ciaran1792 says...
@ TVaddict fair enough we disagree. You have your opinion which I have to respect and you have min. yeah we make money from Europe. but can the french and English claim to be the best in Europe if they make there own comp answer is no they cant. Do I think the current system is fair. I do to be honest England and France have 6 slots each Ireland only has three if England and France have so many teams then that's their problem. I could care less if the french sign the deal. and they do try in pro 12. They let Argentina join the championship didn't they? Do you really think they would turn down the prospect of packing out stadiums like Lansdown road and Croke park for big matches during S15 and rugby championship. The financial incentive of full capacity stadiums would be a huge draw for the SANZAR nations so not in my dreams in fact quite rational and viable.
On another note GCP_JONES! You don't like my comment? Tell me why and we will discuss! But don't go dismissing what I have to say out of hand. ''A stupid comment'' If you have something to say I am all ears. But I would never ridicule someone for making a statement nor should you I would engage them in a debate or discussion on said topic! That is all the time I am willing to waste on your asinine comment. if you disagree tell me why I am more than happy to discuss rugby things with anybody.
Posted 16:11 13th September 2012
ciaran1792 says...
GCP_JONES thats my oppinion and why should they get it their own way all the time !
Posted 15:56 13th September 2012
TVaddict says...
@ciaran1792
To be fair, the amount of money the Pro12 teams get from European competitions means they need it. I mean, what are the fans going to watch? The domestic competition?! Also, only in your dreams would they let any of you join the rugby championship!
I do think the current system is unfair, though this is all a bit extreme. Though I guess it's good that we're actually doing something about it and I like that the deal includes upgrading the technology at the stadiums.
I'm predicting the French will probably sign up to this deal, and if that happens then it's all pretty much sorted. The Pro12 teams choose not to join then they'll lose out a lot more than we will. If they do join then Pro12 fans get the added benefit of an exciting league where teams actually try!
Posted 15:51 13th September 2012
GCP_JONES says...
@ ciaran1792...
What a stupid opening comment....
Posted 15:19 13th September 2012
ciaran1792 says...
I am sad that the Heineken cup is ending. I hope the provinces refuse to play this new competition. If the14 and premier league wanna throw their toys out of the pram then we should throw a pipe bomb out of ours. We should keep the three time European champs Leinster, the two time euro champs Munster and Ulster the first Irish province to win the Heineken cup in 2000 and last years finalists out of their new comp. lets see them call themselves the best in Europe when they cant handle been with the big boys of European rugby. It's not our fault we have centrally contract players and a player welfare system. Perhaps France and England should be more careful with their players. Oh and If they want to pull out of the Heineken we should talk to SANZAR about joining the rugby championship pulling out of the six nations and joining the S15 tournament. I for one wouldn't mind that one bit.
Posted 14:45 13th September 2012
jontheref says...
I also would like to see a more competitive Pro 12, with first past the post for the number of seeds.
I have said this many times, but cannot see Italy and Scotland voting for it.
If they do get a 20 team comp, with pools of 5, games each, great.
But they will probably go with 5 pools of 4, with the resulting shoehorning of best placed 2 or 3 rd teams to go to quarters.
Though this reminds me of the ill fated Rugby Circus that raised it's head back in 1995, thank fully that drowned at birth.
Posted 14:33 13th September 2012
jamesliveinhope says...
"And we've secured, from the English Premiership, the rights to that for the UK...."
Well unless there is a new spirit of co-operation between PRL, the WRU and SRU, it doesn't feel like the new one includes any Welsh or Scottish regions does it?
The question is, can it be called a European competition with only the French and English in it or will the Irish be joining in?
Posted 13:47 13th September 2012
dodgyrog says...
farcial, english clubs trying to get there grubby little hands on every penny they can,how can you sell tv rights for a european competition that will only have english teams. not long before their owners will be selling ther granny's
Posted 13:42 13th September 2012
makemehappy says...
What about the current BSB rights, to show all the games? What a shambles! Who has BT Vision anyway? They surely won't have an sizeable audience!
Posted 13:24 13th September 2012
rugby_rockstar says...
Soooo, basically, the English clubs are annoyed that the celtic teams look after their players better. Resting them rather than running them into the ground week in week out. So they want to force the celtic sides to muller their players as hard and ruthlessly as they do in the aviva and top 14...
Hmmm. I wonder which side is actually doing whats best for the sport and the players? Seems to me that one side is in it to make as much cash as possible using strip mine tactics while the other, looks after its players AND plays a better more sucessful brand of rugby too.
The problem with PRL is that they try to sell the english domestic league as the pinicle of rugby. The european cup results shows that to be untrue. You don't see the Curry Cup being lauded as better than super rugby and test rugby. you don't see the Air NZ cup doing it. you don't see the Pro 12 doing it. England and france have got it wrong but the real disarster for northern hemisphere rugby is that they are trying force the guys who have got it right to do it the wrong way too.
I'm English by the way. And kinda fed up with being embarrassed by PRL's stupid bully boy yob tactics. I'm sure other english fans feel the same.
Posted 13:18 13th September 2012
Frooschman says...
Firstly, having BT's rank incompetence in anyway associated with MY sport chills to me to the bone. Second, as a man who only subscribes to Sky and ESPN to catch all the action I'm yet to understand how BT will deliver rugby to the UK public although I have seen quotes on other sites of an extra £21pcm over pay TV! And third, while I agree that the qualification for the HC needs to be realigned for Pro12 teams to make it an even playing field this is simply a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water! I want to see Munster and Leinster and Toulouse and the Ospreys playing Leicester and Sarries - and hell, maybe even one day Bath again! This is a solid gold cluster-f*ck from BT and Premiership Rugby!
Posted 13:09 13th September 2012
Waz4before says...
you could look on the bright side ... now we'll have 2 European Cups in one season ... result ;-)
Posted 13:09 13th September 2012
Jediboy says...
Interesting. That's an awful lot of money as well. Does anyone know where these games they've got broadcast rights to will be shown??
Posted 13:09 13th September 2012
GCP_JONES says...
Did you ever hear such Tosh, the situation has become a total farce. the siix unions involved agreed with sky sports a 4 year deal back in June this year.
it makes me angry that the professional wing of the sport I love is handled and dealt with in such a slap dash un-professional manner. the Arrogance of the these people knows no bounds. In the Irish sports section to-day it was reported that the English clubs agreed this deal behind the other unions back its really pathetic.
Posted 12:57 13th September 2012