Disappointed: Jean-Pierre Lux
The latest round of talks between the stakeholders of European club rugby has failed to find a solution to the crisis facing the future of European tournaments.
The Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup organisers, representatives from the six constituent Unions, Premiership Rugby and the Ligue National de Rugby (LNR), met in London for the fourth meeting of the consultation process aimed at formulating a new accord which will provide for the structure and format of European club rugby tournaments for the 2014/15 season and beyond.
Premiership Rugby and the LNR have long been at odds with their Welsh, Irish, Scottish and Italian counterparts after the English body announced in September that it had signed a new TV deal with BT which could lead to a new-look European Cup, with both they and their French counterparts stating their intent to end the current agreement in 2014.
No solutions to the current stand-off were found with further talks now planned for February 6.
"The meeting agenda included an evaluation, conducted by ERC, of the merits and the rationale for the proposed changes to the Heineken Cup and the Amlin Challenge Cup, as well as the impact on all stakeholders of any changes to the format and structure of both tournaments," read an ERC statement.
"While the evaluation provided the basis for discussion, the meeting ended without agreement. Jean-Pierre Lux, ERC independent Chairman, concluded the proceedings by calling on all parties to take time to reflect on their positions and to consider the collective objectives of the stakeholders."
Lux added his disappointment at the length of time it was taking to strike a deal, saying: "After four meetings, it is extremely disappointing for all involved that we have not yet made sufficient progress towards a new Accord.
"These tournaments have become cherished by the clubs, players, supporters and our partners. Everyone around the table remains committed to making European club rugby stronger and we are confident a solution will be found."
While February 6 is not an appointed date for talks on this issue, the board of the ERC is scheduled to meet on that date.
The structure and format of both the Heineken Cup and the Amlin Challenge Cup remain in place until the end of the 2013/14 season.
Comments
Norm says...
Froggy and Lawnyd
The top 3 irish clubs would probably benefit financially from what is being proposed ( at the moment any of them woul cruise through the premiership with barely a glove laid on them) but here is the thing that is consstently being missed by French and English contributors. THE RABO IS IN ITSELF A DEVELOPING LEAGUE!
The aim should be of course to have it reach the level that the premiership and top14 are at, realistcially only Irish and certain Welsh teams could survive at that level, so does that mean we cut Scotland and Italy loose and ignore them leaving them to regress to an amateur league or do we work with them to develop their game?
Another question, if we bring in promotion and relegation to the Rabo, who are you going to promote? Sardinia? Naples? Ebbw Vale? Cork Constitution? The Borders? Oh thats right the borders went bankrupt! Ah sure lets kill off Edinburgh and Glasgow too and then we can all have their money too! Also I distinctly recall that this year there almost was no relegation from the premiership until a legal appeal by London Welsh. So if the worlds biggest playing population is struggling to find a team with the wherewithall to be promoted to the top flight what the hell chance do the Italians have?
Once again, the power to allow English and French clubs to prioritise European rugby over domestic is wholly within their own control. Seal off your league if you must. sort your salary restriction and allow the clubs to expand theit squads whatever, but stop standing there poor mouthing and expecting the developing nations to be sacrificed to compensate for the infighting and backbiting in your own domestic game.
Leinster, Ulster, Munster and the IRFU, WRU fair play for standing solidly with the development of the game!
Posted 13:38 13th December 2012
APV1 says...
And here we go again. England will be blamed for all that is wrong in the world and every other nation is perfect. Fine. Now let's move on to the issue at hand.
The ERC have goals for the two competitions. They explain the fundamental difference between the HC and the Amlin - one for elite, one for development:
http://tiny.cc/nx78ow
Not my words, theirs. So accept them.
And here's what I wrote on a previous thread:
"You don't have to be a genius to work this one out. We want everyone to play pan-European rugby. We want the competition to be merit-based, not a quota. We want to develop European club rugby. And we want the leagues to be competitive. So here we go again:
Top 6 from AP, Pro12 and T14.
= 18 teams.
+ previous Amlin and previous HC winners.
= 20 teams.
(If previous Amlin and / or HC winners are already included, their league gets to add the 7th and, if necessary, 8th placed team in)
4 pools of 5, top 2 from each going through to the knock-out stages (remember how the RWC pools work? Same idea.).
All 18 others into Amlin.
Add in Bucharest Wolves & Bizkaia
= 20 teams. 4 pools of 5 again. Same format as HC.
Fair all round. All based on merit. Everyone gets European Cup Rugby. Development of teams. All leagues become competitive.
Jobs a goodun."
Now what's wrong with that?
Other than I'm English so it must be wrong, from an objective point of view, anything else wrong?
Some teams won't play in the HC. Yep. Just like now. But who can honestly justify the place of, for example, Zebre in the HC? Zebre certainly need to play European rugby, but in the Amlin, not the HC. They dilute the quality of the HC and are just getting battered. Much better for them to develop in the Amlin and earn their place in the HC.
(Just pretend I'm Irish for a moment - my mother is, so I can get away with it - and see if you can take an objective view).
Posted 12:19 13th December 2012
froggy73 says...
@99call: it's interesting to see the Irish clubs denying the fact having no relegation and automatic qualification makes their life easier. Then why do they not accept the more fair proposal coming from the French and English ?
What are they scared of ? If they are that good, they should always qualify and win the HEC.
Posted 11:51 13th December 2012
bignoel says...
@ curates_egg
"arrogant premiership fools" - yawn. This is all about money. Rightly or wrongly the Top 14 and AP clubs want more of it and they bring in most of the sponsors. They will either get what they want (which may include a compromise) or walk away and start their own Anglo-French cup and all the sponsors will walk with them. No one will want to see a Celtic-Italian Cup when you already have the Pro 12.
The current system is unfair. The Pro12 teams do not have to play their strongest sides every week and often rest their best players for many rounds of the competition as most sides are assured qualification into the HC which is where the money is. The AP and Top 14 sides cannot afford to do this because they have to fight to qualify. This is not an equitable situation.
Even if you ignore that arguement, how is it fair that a side like the Dragons do not qualify for the HC when Edinburgh and Treviso do who both finished lower than them in the Pro12? Then you have Zebre who go straight into the HC even though they did not exist last year!! The system is rotten and needs changing. Unless someone gives ground, there will be no HC in 2014/15 as the AP and Top 14 clubs have already given their 2 year notice to withdraw. That has happended. It is for the Pro 12 clubs to make the next move.
Posted 09:46 13th December 2012
lawynd says...
@curates_egg - do you feel compelled to watch or attend Pro12 games in the current format? Do you think viewers outside the core audience are ever compelled to watch? Do you think, based on the relative successes against the top three teams in the world, that it helps develop players' international prospects?
If any of the answers to the above are 'no', then there's every reason in the world to change how Pro12 teams qualify for the European Cup. And that's without even considering the inherent imbalance in qualification and seeding, versus English and French qualifiers.
Posted 09:44 13th December 2012
99call says...
Its interesting that the english and french are the ones moaning and saying that they cant be competitive due to the R12 teams being able to rest their players for key matches as they dont have to worry about relegation
Look at the groups now on current form there will be 4 french 2 english and 1 R12 team going through as group winners with 2 of the biggest sides Munster and Leinster both struggling to get out of their groups. I wonder if an english or french side wins it this year if they will be so keen to change the format.
Posted 09:25 13th December 2012
Dafyddg84 says...
We can't have these Provincial types embarrassing us by bettering us at our game...
Posted 09:03 13th December 2012
Derrynane says...
Looking at Northampton on Friday they looked like a team that had just been introduced to each other. I dont understand the RFU and WRU position of scheduling internationals outside the international window, and worst of all, the week before their clubs return to what is usually the pivotal period in the HC.
Perhaps the issue with clubs from these countries not being more successful in recent years is less about the perceived advantages of Irish, Scots and Italian clubs getting a free pass into HC and more about the fact that the clubs put up with this, for I assume a handy price.
Having said this I do feel that at a minimum the bottom two teams in the Pro 12 should not qualify for the following HC. This would open the way to one more club from each of England and France getting entry.
I would hate to see the current 6 groups of 4 format being dropped as this is a major reason for the appeal of the tournament given we have no idea who the qualifiers will be until the last day. The system of top 2 from each group qualifying would be boring in the extreme.
Finally, it is interesting to note that Clermont rested 12 of their front line players for their match against Toulouse the week before playing Leinster. Did'nt hear too much bleating from English clubs about the unfair advantage that this gave them.
Posted 08:37 13th December 2012
sextons_on_fire says...
The English are stupid doo-doo heads!!! hahahaha BOOM
Posted 08:21 13th December 2012
curates_egg says...
So 4 clubs from Wales and Ireland and one each from Scotland and Italy? Come off it. That is not a compromise, that is a further declaration of war.
Pro12 supplied 5 of the 8 quarter finalists last year, 3 of the 4 semi finalists and the 2 finalists. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Hope the French see sense and tell those arrogant premiership fools where to go.
Posted 01:47 13th December 2012
Speartackle says...
Just leave it as it is!
Posted 20:37 12th December 2012