It affected me: Bryce Lawrence
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Bryce Lawrence says his performance in last year's World Cup quarter-final was influenced by complaints from ARU chief executive John O'Neill.
Retired ref Lawrence claims he was hounded out of rugby by South Africa and Australia following his showing in the Springboks and Wallabies match.
"I had four really good games at the World Cup and then I had that," the 41-year-old told the Bay Of Plenty Times.
"There was some pretty nasty political stuff going on about that appointment. I refereed Australia versus Ireland and Ireland had won but behind the scenes guys like John O'Neill were kicking up a massive stink.
"I knew a bit about that and it was enough to affect me, and it probably made me freeze on the biggest stage."
Australia won the game 11-9 which has now led to Lawrence calling it quits and taking up a role as the New Zealand Rugby Union high-performance referee reviewer. He was stood down from the International Rugby Board's elite panel after the World Cup and didn't referee any Super Rugby matches in South Africa.
"It (the reaction) got pretty bad," Lawrence said.
"On Facebook they launched a 'get rid of Bryce Lawrence' site and it was pretty nasty.
"That was absolutely the reason for my career change.
"I got told at the end of the World Cup that I would have a break from Test rugby for the Six Nations and I could totally accept that as there has to be a consequence for poor performance.
"I was told I would be brought back in the middle of this year, as I was ranked in the top three or four referees in the world. But because of the political reaction from rugby unions like Australia and South Africa behind the scenes, they dropped me."
Last month, British & Irish Lions boss Warren Gatland highlighted the pressure Lawrence had been placed under by O'Neill as he outlined the challenges that await his squad.
"They are masters at it and possibly the best one was John O'Neill, as a master of influence in certain things," said 2013 touring coach Gatland.
"I'm not 100% sure, but I think that after Ireland beat Australia in that pool game, certain complaints were made about the referee (Lawrence), subtly and tactfully, and I think that had an impact on the quarter-final.
"We've got to be aware about what sort of things are going to be done on and off the field."
O'Neill is on his way out of his post at the ARU to focus on business interests outside rugby.
Comments
BokAvenger says...
@7ton: I have answered your question but you are too dim to realise it. But let me humour you and answer it again anyway.
No I do not believe the 95 WC was rigged, precisely because there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that it was. Sure, everyone goes on about the semi final against France that supposedly should never have been played. The mind boggles that any true rugby supporter would want a WC semi-final to be cancelled due to rain, which would have allowed 1 team to go through at the expense of another based on a technicality. The technicality in question was the yellow cards, but the only reason SA got those yellows was because of the premeditated assault on our players by Canada. As usual the Boks defend themselves and are then labelled the bad guys.
But back to whether 95 was rigged. I repeat. No. What evidence can you present other than a bizarre claim about a mystery waitress called Suzie who supposedly felled the entire AB squad single handedly? In 17 yrs precisely NO EVIDENCE has ever been presented to suggest that a Suzie existed outside of John Hart's wounded little mind. Contrast that with 2011 where a year after the final we've had a ref ADMIT that he was influenced by "senior rugby people" behind the scenes BEFORE a quarter final. If he was influenced, then it stands to reason that Craig Joubert was also influenced, particularly when you consider his one sided performance. I label 2011 Rigged in the sense that I firmly believe the IRB and POB in particular had a vested interest in engineering an AB victory. The last thing they wanted was to see their precious marketing gimmick choke at another world cup.
Posted 08:20 25th October 2012
new_j4a says...
@bokavenger who repeatedly spews this sort of rubbish: ".....how do you explain Craig Joubert's diabolically biased reffing display against France ....blah, blah.... the touch judge who awarded Donald's kick when it actually sailed wide of the right hand upright. .....blah, blah.... RIGGED WORLD CUP."
You can't even get your facts straight e.g. Donald's kick. Here are a few more facts for you. You don't understand the Laws. You are an idiot. You have not one iota of credibility. You embarrass all South Africans except a small contingent of ref tacklers and bottle throwers at Loftus who also think that Eugene T was a great leader. Posters like 7ton have a brain and understand the game. It's a mismatch....like if the Springboks played the Poffadder Hoerskool U14Ds. They are just baiting you and making you look stupid, about as easy as verifying that the law of gravity is still in effect.
Posted 08:04 25th October 2012
7ton says...
Bok avenger
You have just gone round in a big circle with you talking the usual shyte that we have heard all before and argued against all before
AND you have simply failed to answer the last question I put to you on 20 Oct. Instead you hide away for a few days then come back with the same old bitter and twisted rant.
I'll ask again
Given your comments on rugby not being immune to fixing and the influence of money then could you not consider that in 1995 the WC may possibly have been rigged? Take into account the political situation with the need for different factions to unite and those big Multi national countries with a very vested interest in minerals wanting a stable situation.
Like you said "the influence of money"
Just to clarify that I am not asking you if it actually was but just if you would acknowledge that it is within the bounds of possibility given your forementioned comments
Posted 01:17 25th October 2012
BokAvenger says...
@7ton: When last has Aus beaten NZ in NZ? Now compare that to SA. We are the only team who has managed to beat them in their back yard in recent history, apart from France. The ABs were also without Carter and they ALWAYS struggle against us without Carter. Are you telling that as IRB's chief of Refs, POB was blissfully unaware of anyone influencing Bryce Lawrence? Might I remind you that Bryce Lawrence's father was the ref who was caught years ago sending emails to his Aussie cohort refs instructing them to "get the yarpies [sic]"? Hell he could have been influenced at the family dinner table. And if you don't think officials were influenced then how do you explain Craig Joubert's diabolically biased reffing display against France in the final. France should have won that game but Craig Joubert made sure they didn't, obviously to safe guard his career. As far as I'm concerned he should be banned too. And then there was the touch judge who awarded Donald's kick when it actually sailed wide of the right hand upright. Say what you want. 2011 was the year of the RIGGED WORLD CUP.
Posted 06:52 24th October 2012
rugby_rockstar says...
O'Neill has been up to dirty tricks ever since the 2001 Lions tour. So I'm not surprised. After this disclosure I have to say that veiw of referees has dropped even further, and it was niot very high anyway.
Next time a coach has a pop at a referee in the post match interview maybe the IRB need to LISTEN rather than coming down on him like a tonne of bricks.
The refereeing in union is one of the biggest issues in the sport. I commented on it earlier today with Dan Biggar feeling like the french ref was siding with leicester due to all the Pro 12 vs Top 14 and aviva euro wars. There is too much that is up to the referee's interpretation, so either help the guy by giving the TMO much more power so he can step in at any time so take the interpretations out of the game.
Posted 13:47 22nd October 2012
7ton says...
phillipfry
No of course not and quite happy that SA won in 95 and I don't believe any WC was rigged. Just trying to reason with bokavenger on how we could look at many games and come up with reasons and motives as to why they may have been rigged:)
Posted 12:05 21st October 2012
philipjfry says...
@7ton: Do you really believe that the '95 WC was rigged? In you previous post you allude to it but you seem to be on the fence.
Posted 11:02 21st October 2012
7ton says...
bokavenger
You better read my post again. I never said BL said it was only John O'Neil and neither am I pretending it didn't happen but am argueing against your assumption that POB was involved and that it was somehow part of a plan to rig the 2011 WC
Put things in context-after BL mentioned Senior People he then went on to say "Guys like John O'Neil" Now that does not mean POB was involved.
As I have said before I doubt whether O'Neil would be involved with POB in a conspiracy and SA were not seen as a greater threat than Aus.
If I could make a few silly assumptions myself in jest then to rig the WC they would have ensured that both Aus and SA ended up on the other side of the draw then fixed it so both got knocked out in the1/4 or semi. Thus NZ could have avoided them both-just like SA avoided NZ and Aus in 2007. Whoa 2007 must have been rigged.LOL.
Also it would have fixed for Wales to beat France in the 2011 semi as given previous history and with respect to Wales France were seen as a bigger threat to NZ.
Seriously now we have spent a lot of time here and it is obvious that you are convinced 2011 was rigged and I doubt very much that any WC's were rigged and we are just wasting each others time trying to convince the other to the contrary.
I would like to ask you a final question.
Given your comments on rugby not being immune to fixing and the influence of money then could not consider that in 1995 the WC may possibly have been rigged? Take into account the political situation with the need for different factions to unite and those big Multi national countries with a very vested interest in minerals wanting a stable situation.
Like you said "the influence of money"
Posted 14:36 20th October 2012
BokAvenger says...
@7ton: What beggars belief is that we've just had an international referee ADMIT that he was influenced by "senior" rugby people before that quarter final and you want to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen. BL DID NOT say it was only John O'Neill who influenced him, he simply said that O'Neill was the worst of the lot. In other words, there were other parties too who influenced him. Paddy O'Brien had a history of gunning for SA so I have no doubt that as head of IRB's refereeing panel he would have played a part.
It beggars belief the people on this forum live under the delusional belief that rugby is immune to match fixing etc. Look around you at other sports. Soccer, cricket, cycling, the olympics .. everything is rotten to the core. And you clowns think rugby has somehow miraculously escaped the influence of the $ and remains a wholesome little sport played on Sundays at the village green, and reffed by the local parson. It's you lot who need a reality check, not me. It wasn't long ago that Lance Armstrong was being hailed as the Messiah. Look at him now.
Posted 06:36 20th October 2012
7ton says...
trinats
Have a good read of that article in the Bay of Plenty times about what Bryce Lawrence says about how he refereed that game between your reds and the crusaders.
Oh dear could it possibly be the reds had a bit of help from the ref?
Posted 04:34 20th October 2012
7ton says...
bokavenger
Bryce Lawrence said that after the Ireland/Australia game which Ireland won, behind the scenes Guys like John O'Neil were kicking up a massive stink and he (Bryce Lawrence) knew a bit about that and let it affect him.
How you can assume that because of this it means that POB whispered in Craig Jouberts ear just beggars belief and the more you come up with these sort of ridiculous assumptions the more you convince me that you are really trying to kid yourself and are simply a very sad and bitter loser.
Posted 19:53 19th October 2012
Wallaroo says...
@kinsman 1981 and the years surrounding that may have been shameful for South Africa but that mate is a more distant past than 1992 and the years after that when South Africa went through a radical transformation without a civil war.
So they have a lot more to be proud of than ashamed of, can you guarantee that if NZ had gone through the same thing there would not have been a civil war - I doubt you can.
BTW heard of Bosnia, the UN and the Australian armed forces - I know them all well.
Posted 19:16 19th October 2012
Wallaroo says...
@Ramage, fair enough mate, not supporters but protesters albeit I'm sure some of them may have been rugby fans; albeit he point is more salient (which I believe you get). There are lunatics across the globe and there is always poor and misdirected behaviour from these people from all nations and walks of life therefore people in glass houses should not throw stones. I absolutely detest the Ausssies are like this, Kiwis are like that, Saffas are like this stuff, we spend far too much emotional energy trying to belittle others in an endeavour to promote ourselves - such childish behaviour belongs either in a school yard or parliament not on a forum meant for adults.
What most here don't seem to get is the more time we spend promoting others the more we ourselves are promoted principally because it's more deifying to talk positively, when we feel edified the world becomes a much more pleasant place regardless.
Posted 18:55 19th October 2012
philipjfry says...
@golden_statenba: 'And that's all we really are. Like Rosbif said we are the super computer reff's analyzing play by play to find some fault in each game to make us fell better due to our teams loss or bad performance.'
I have no idea what you're talking about. And, contrary to what you seem to believe, I do not begrudge New Zealand their win. This was always a discussion about Lawrence and the management of poor refereeing and not the final; I used Craig Joubert's performance in the final as an example of questionable refereeing that goes unaddressed.
Yes, they are humans and human beings make mistakes but if I make a mistake at work there are consequences, not just for me but for my colleague also if he or she makes the same mistake. This does not seem to be the case for Lawrence and Joubert and I am suspicious as to why. No, there's no IRB conspiracy, but there is some blatant mismanagement and I am too passionate about rugby too say 'c'est la vie'.
Posted 16:58 19th October 2012
Trinats2 says...
"To accuse Craig Joubert to be involved in a fix and deliberatly favour NZ is shameful and very insulting..:
If you are a Kiwi !!!
Posted 16:22 19th October 2012
BokAvenger says...
@7ton: We've just had Bryce Lawrence ADMIT that he was influenced by "senior rugby" people before that quarter final between SA and Aus. You mean to tell me that, given BL's admission, that Paddy O'Brien and his henchman didn't whisper in Craig Joubert's ear that he didn't want to mess up his career by allowing for the "wrong" outcome in the final? Say what you want on this forum, deep down you know it's true.
Posted 13:42 19th October 2012
bokke31 says...
i hate this guy !! i'll never forgive him.
a disgrace !!! what's his nationality ? ....
Posted 13:09 19th October 2012
7ton says...
Carpelone
But they did win at the precise moment my friend.
As for who would of won between NZ and SA had they meet in 2011 we will simply never know. Likewise in 2007.
From a NZ/SA viewpoint both 2011 and 2007 had a lot of similarities
Argentina beat France 2007 and Ireland beat Australia 2011 to skew the expected 1/4 final line ups
Both NZ and SA exit in the 1/4 finals under controversial circumstances although in my opinion despite the refereeing both teams did not take their chances
Both NZ and SA end up in the final and narrowly beat the team that they had very easily beaten previously in the pool stages
Well that's knockout rugby and perhaps a league system where all the major teams play each other in a world championship would be fairer but at the end of the day it's only a game and I can't see the point of all this griping and what ifs?
Cheers and enjoy your weekend
Posted 12:29 19th October 2012
7ton says...
Bokavenger
Opinions are not facts and it is very arrogant to say they are especially biased ones like yours.
Forward passes? Ask Habana in that last game. (55/45) from my view but they were given the benefit of the doubt) Ask Habana about his little sneaky little lineout fib he told in the earlier game. Then we have all the offsides and blah blah blah
We can go on and on and yes the AB's get away with things but no more than South Africa. The AB's get noticed more because they win more and because of fans like you looking for excuses for your own team losing which gets so bad that you start resenting them winning games against other teams as well.
In that Final Craig Joubert refereed quite well and like in all games he may have missed things but he was fair to both sides and both sides got away with things. If the AB's did have an advantage it was because they had more experience of being refereed by Joubert and a better knowledge of his style and interpretations. Sadly a good part of the game today is about trying to figure out the ref.
As for your explanation as to the motive as why the 2011 cup would have been rigged it is very weak indeed and nowhere near those potential ones that were around in 1995.
To accuse Craig Joubert to be involved in a fix and deliberatly favour NZ is shameful and very insulting..
Posted 11:33 19th October 2012
Carpelone says...
I have to say Well done to Lawrence for having the guts of admitting that.
No one can argue that New Zealand deserved the title given the amount of brilliant rugby they were able to show us consistently for at least a decade.
However, winning a RWC is not like winning a Grammy on your career, but you have to win at that precise moment. Without Carter, Springboks chances of causing an upset in the semifinal were significant.
Amen.
Posted 10:18 19th October 2012