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I have never seen such a load of B* some of you posters need to grow up, just because the selection of a Frenchman doesn't suit your own agenda and or beliefs does not give you the right to try to imply bias from a man who has never before been accused of bad decision making, unlike that idiot Barnes on Saturday.
Posted 09:05 06th August 2012
@D4tress I didn't realize that POB had been in charge for 100 yrs
Posted 10:44 05th August 2012
Jay Starr I hear what you are saying and agree that Sth Africa have a few top referees. How many of them are the result of the work Watson has done? I don't denigrate the work he has done but ask you these questions?
Would it be fair to say that there were others involved in the success of these men? Also who are the men involved in the training of referees in Natal?
Mark Lawrence, whom I consider one of the best, was a compatriot of Watson and was at the top before Watson was involved as Head of Referees. Unfortunately he is no longer on the International panel and his demise coincides with Watson's tenure.
Jonathan Kaplan was an International referee also before Watson took over as head of SA referees and now he is on the downward spiral under Watson.
Marius Jonker was appointed to referee u20 final in 2004 before Watson was involved and now he seems to be on the downward spiral under Watson.
Craig Joubert had his first test in 2005 which, correct me if I'm wrong, was before Watson was in charge. Also one could claim the refereeing was in Joubert's genes as his father was an accomplished referee lol.
I think that some of the claims you are making about Watson should actually be put at the feet of others in SA refereeing circles and the plans and organisation they put in place before Watson arrived on the scene of administration and not those of Watson. Wasn't he only appointed as manager of SA referees in 2011 . To be fair Peyper has grown under the Watson era . It seems despite his training most are on their way out. You may be right and I don't dispute you can make a good case for Watson. I don't believe Jutge got the job because of Lapasset is French just that Rugby refereeing is very political and Watson has amassed a number of enemies with some of his utterances and this factor is more likely, that is, if he even applied for the job.
@ lawynd totally agree
Posted 10:07 05th August 2012
at least he's not a pom
Posted 22:37 04th August 2012
@leinster_goy - Neither of them are in charge of 'driving forward the development of international rugby union'. They are both however in charge of managing and assessing match officials; I can't think of anyone more suitable to look after referees than, you know, a referee. Unless of course you know something we don't and Bernard Lapasset and Bill Beaumont have delegated all the IRB's responsibilities?
Posted 14:38 04th August 2012
@ Ramage: I am not judging Jutge or Watson on their performance as referees, I am judging them on their performance as referee bosses in their respective countries.
Since Andre Watson took over in SA, the SA referees started dominating the SANZAR refereeing panel as well as the international stage. No referees are perfect - and everyone has referees they don't like - but nobody can argue that South Africa has by far the most top class referees at the moment. Every other country has about 1 referee that stands out - SA has at least 4 (Joubert, Peyper - who is now also on the IRB elite panel - Kaplan, Lawrence & Jonker). None of them are perfect, but they are consistently better than anyone else...
It is the finer details - their approach to the game, their knowledge of the scrums, their authority, and especially their communication with the players - that make them stand out above the others. These are the areas that Watson improved. He arranges days where the refs have to play rugby, scrum, etc. and gets players and coached involved to teach the refs the finer details from their side. His approach is just different than the usual top-down "we know better" approach - he is holistic... and the results speak for themselves.
What has Jutge done? Knows the right people? (What nationality is Bernard Lappaset again?)
I'm just saying: if you want to pick a referee boss on merit, there is one standing head and shoulders above everyone else at the moment, whose results speak for themselves. But the IRB ignored this, in favour of someone who has done nothing.
Posted 13:25 04th August 2012
@Jmanngod: 'I wonder how conspiraTards from SA will cope with this one?' My theory is that it was your mother who did it to Col. Mustard in the library with a rope.
Posted 09:37 04th August 2012
I believe that SA has the best refs at present, but would have to agree with Ramage re Andre Watson. As a Stormers/WP supporter I have no time for Watson. He was seriously one-eyed in his support for the Bulls. I think he is made from the same mould as POB, so best move on.
Posted 09:29 04th August 2012
@ImLaigheanIt well said, couldn't have put it better myself (nice name, by the way ;-))
@lawynd you really are a monumental tool aren't you
Posted 09:18 04th August 2012
forget the conspiracy theory. there isnt any conspiracy. O Brien was just incompetent and weak willed, and backed his incompetence by promoting equally incompetent and desperately weak willed referees like Joubert. no conspiracy- just a lack of ability and spine which has greatly discredited rugby.
Posted 08:43 04th August 2012
Jaystarr ...I agree .SA have the best refs.
D4tress ...Best think of a new excuse or accept reality.
Posted 07:11 04th August 2012
@Jay Starr before getting carried away about Watson and bagging Jutge, remember when Watson was refereeing? He wasn't flavour of the month amongst players and fans with his over the top authoritarian attitude prevalent in many referees. Remember the final of the RWC in 2003 when he was bagged unmercifully, but without the hatred aimed at Barnes and Lawrence, for his interpretations of the scrum law. In fact it was the winning team, England, who had the most to say about his incompetence in that game. It only goes to show that no matter who is appointed if he is a referee will have skeletons in his cupboard and Watson like all referees has plenty of those. The simple fact is that maybe the blinkers are on and you cant see past support of one of your own. I don't even know if Watson applied for the job, but no doubt his Nationalistic outbursts in support of his own National team and against Bryce Lawrence would not have endeared him to those at the IRB who had to make the appointment. I cant remember seeing any such criticism of either Lawrence or Joubert by Jutge. Remember Jay Starr there are people in the rugby world who believe Joubert is a cheat and corrupt because, in their eyes, he allowed the All Blacks to win. However unlike Lawrence there was no facebook page set up to drive Joubert out of refereeing. What I am trying to say is that we are all biased in our own way. You are glad Paddy O'Brien has gone and I am glad that Watson, who has form, has not been appointed. However if he did apply there was no way he would have been appointed as there is a conspiracy against South Africa at IRB level and so Watson would never get the job lol. Don't worry if you don't like Jutge he is only there seat warming until Lyndon Bray another Kiwi is ready to take over. I know this to be true as, that is the other conspiracy at IRB level, they are at the mercy of the NZRFU
Posted 04:17 04th August 2012
This is only a near story because the Saffa's are so unsportsmanlike and have been whinging a lot recently about some unprovable intangible conspiracy which has zero effect on the results on games.
STICK TO THE 80 MINS ON THE FIELD and then you might start winning more.
Posted 00:24 04th August 2012
@ turboboy: I'm not that bad! :p (but thanks for agreeing with me)
Posted 23:48 03rd August 2012
So if Paddy O'Brien's reign is anything to go by, France will be given the 2015 RWC final just like in 2011.
Posted 23:47 03rd August 2012
God I hope the All Blacks continue their dominance in world rugby in the absences of O'Brien just to shut up all the bloody conspiracy theorist about him "helping" out the All Blacks over the past few years. Because boy those just never get old!
Posted 22:59 03rd August 2012
d4tress, no, you will have findf another lame excuse.
Posted 21:55 03rd August 2012
a very sad day fro rugby that this frenchman is now in charge of refs... I wonder how conspiraTards from SA will cope with this one?
Posted 21:41 03rd August 2012
More like 0ne less excuse for you to make Lol:)
Posted 20:02 03rd August 2012
Time to crock open the champaigne or that special bottle of wine your saving. Looking forward to how refs will look at rugby development as under paddy it was set by what Nz were playing and rules changed to suit their game..
Posted 19:59 03rd August 2012