Samoa are on the verge of knocking Wales out of the top eight after the provisional rankings were released.
The IRB World Rankings will be confirmed at midday UK time on Monday 19 November.
Samoa, who defeated Wales in Cardiff on Friday, will be in ninth, but only 0.16 ratings points behind Wales in eighth. Samoa face France on Saturday.
Australia strengthened their grip on a top-four seeding for the RWC 2015 Pool Allocation Draw by defeating England at Twickenham. France have also taken a step towards being amongst the top four for the December 3 pool draw after they defeated Argentina by 17 points in Lille. France will be in fourth in Monday's rankings, more than three ratings points ahead of England.
Latest provisional IRB World Rankings - top 12
1 New Zealand 92.91
2 South Africa 86.05
3 Australia 85.94
4 France 84.99
5 England 81.96
6 Argentina 79.89
7 Ireland 79.04
8 Wales 78.95
9 Samoa 78.79
10 Scotland 77.42
11 Italy 76.61
12 Tonga 74.51
With thanks to the IRB
Comments
Manusamoa says...
Didnt mean to hate on the Scots but i just feel if we had the chance to play more Internationals against quality sides we would be more up there. I know it will never happen because of the money side of such a small nation but i guess we will never know our full potential. I do love how the Scots toured Samoa, that was rare and meant alot to our people!
Posted 07:19 21st November 2012
sonsofsamoa says...
@makemehappy
No I'm not playing down their wins.. I'm saying they're fatigued.. So in saying that Argentina have just come off a Rugby Championship (2 games each against the BEST in the world) and a win against Wales with the same match day XV since the beginning of the year.. But then again we will ALL have a clearer picture once the game this weekend has finished.. I believe France will win as they have the skills to counterattack brute force!
@manusamoa
Sorry but you have made the mistake of disrespecting the Scots here.. Just because we're (Samoa) in a good run of form... does not mean ANYTHING... as any team can beat any team on any given day (out of the top 10) just all depends who plays Rugby!!.. (Look at Scotland's win against Wallabies this year) take nothing away from them.. they are a proud Rugby nation and so they should be.. Really wish there would be more games between Samoa and Scotland imo!!
Posted 05:53 21st November 2012
HRFC2 says...
Samoa have def been on form this tour, but I think the current form of the french defense is enough to disrupt any team in the world. I think France "right now", are about the only ones who can take the AB's down.
I have France by 11 over Samoa.
Posted 13:53 20th November 2012
makemehappy says...
@sonofsamoa - do you like playing down France's wins? Fatigued Argentine side???
Can't see Samoa winning this one - France look good enough to beat anyone other than the AB's on a regular basis.
The most interesting issue, is what happens following a loss by Wales and Samoa (the most realistic outcome by far)
Posted 13:22 20th November 2012
amstill says...
@manusamoa - no worries, but I still think you are selling Scotland short from where they are right now. Last game played vs Samoa in Samoa in June, Scotland won 17-16. The majority of that Samoa team played in the game vs Wales last Friday. Similar amount of changes for the Scotland team that played over the weekend. I think it would be much closer if they played 10 games right now. Samoa would win a few, as would Scotland. I have huge respect for Samoa as a team and they have been one of my favorite Island teams ever since we watched them vs Scotland in 1991 WC QFs. Great game and great fans and Peter Fatialofa is still one of my favorite props of all time - top bloke. We'll be rooting for you vs France this weekend as I do agree with you that Samoa should get more respect in world rugby stage.
Posted 13:19 20th November 2012
Manusamoa says...
@porridge & amstill, Sorry my bad Ill explain what i meant again.
Fair enough scots have beaten us most the time in the past. But Im talking about the Samoan team atm. We have come a long way lately and the team atm is almost the strongest we have ever been.
Im confident to say that we would beat Scotland and especially Italy most times out of 10 atm.
Posted 08:43 20th November 2012
porridge_time says...
Manusamoa...
As a Scot living in New Zealand I regularly witness the influence of Samoan's in rugby union from the grass roots up. Although I agree with you and empathize that Samoa are an underrated side, but your swipe at Scotland is unfair. Scotland are the Six Nations country to tour Samoa in recent years. I would even go as far as to say that you rarely if ever come across a Scots fan posting condescending comments that you see from the Welsh, Irish and English.
Posted 18:57 19th November 2012
amstill says...
@manusamoa - last I checked, Samoa have never beaten Scotland in 8 attempts. Best they have managed was a 15-15 draw. Kind of ruins your whole "most times out of 10" argument.
Posted 18:20 19th November 2012
Norm says...
Yep Quindub
Possibly right and although Ireland would not have got that many points for beating Fiji, just think how ironically expensive it could be to the IRFU in 2015 if the absence of those points means they drop out of the 2nd tier! This would be bad for Irish rugby but would be good if whoever made the decision re the capping of this game or the Aviva iron clad contract got their hole kicked! But like that would ever happen in the circus that is the IRFU upper echelons.
'Mick did ye ever get around to that full time scrum coach?
Ah sure we'll discuss in first class en route to Auckland.
Good man yerself!'
Posted 18:03 19th November 2012
quin_dub says...
@ MelkDave - Ireland's ranking points stayed the same , it's just everybody else moved , hence they moved up a place - Fiji game counted for nothing in terms of ranking
Posted 16:13 19th November 2012
quin_dub says...
Ireland are definitely at risk - If I understand the rankings process correctly..Ireland, as the home team will get a 3 point bump in their ranking for the game ,meaning that they would actually be notionally ranked higher than Argentina (82.04 vs. 79.89) for this fixture so if they lose the match they would drop ranking points - about 1 point I think (more if a big margin), which would likely drop them to 8th with Wales moving up to 7th - If Argentina won by more than 15 they would likely leapfrog England , that would also push Ireland out of the top 8 regardless of the other results..
It's a huge game...
Posted 16:11 19th November 2012
JMehrtens says...
What do you mean with normally? @Rightside2
Samoa playing without their stars?
They have a 3-1 win/loss record against Italy.
4/5 against Wales (most recently all within 7 points)
Posted 13:08 19th November 2012
JMehrtens says...
Samoa does not need to beat France to overtake Wales.
Wales just need to lose to New Zealand and Australia.
Then Samoa will be in pool 2
Posted 12:59 19th November 2012
melkdave says...
Just one question why have Ireland risen a place??.Their game wasnt a test match ,and as such shouldnt count in the rankings at all.Samoa though ,have a real good chance of overtaking Wales ,tbh ,i cant see Wales beating the ABs and i expect them to lose by 20+ points .If Samoa sneck even a 1 point victory over France ,they will knock em out of pot 2 .
Posted 12:37 19th November 2012
GCP_jones says...
I haven't been really impressed with the quality of games so far in Novmeber, but France and Samoa have been excellent. I think it will be the game of the Autumn tests.
Its great to see another Country really developing( we need a few more to step up to the plate though), they should push for a place in the rugby championship.
Posted 12:32 19th November 2012
APV1 says...
With recent results, the rankings are about right. And we'd better get a whole lot better if we don't want to be overtaken by Argentina..!
Posted 11:17 19th November 2012
RobinBrown says...
Looking at the ranking maths, it is Ireland and not Wales that are more vulnerable to the drop if they lose to Argentina.
I would expect France to beat Samoa and NZ to beat Wales. in which case, the rankings of those teams will be unchanged.
But if Ireland lose they will lose enough points to drop below Wales and Samoa and out of the Top 8.
Posted 11:15 19th November 2012
Jensrsa says...
With Scotland playing Tonga they could leapfrog both Wales and Samoa into 8th
Posted 11:14 19th November 2012
Manusamoa says...
@Rightside2
Italy and scotland are rubbish and where they stand on the rankings makes perfect sense to me. Lol at you thinking they can beat Samoa most the time. Samoa would beat them most times out of 10.
Sorry man im just sick of people under rating us. Look at our players they are all top level pros. Some are stars in there clubs. And some have Super Rugby backgrounds. I couldnt name a Italian or a Scottish player because there all no names!
Posted 10:35 19th November 2012
Norm says...
Hmmm
Now it gets interesting, perhaps SA beat England and Ireland beat the Pumas and suddenly we are ranked 6th. My god could the Samoans save Kidneys neck? Sounds tenuous but it is actually possibly true. There shouldnt be anything to tis but I fear that maintaining tier 2 rankings is the current objective. Problem is that was the objective when Kidney took the helm. It was a sensible and honourable objective then, that we are here 4 years later....
Posted 10:34 19th November 2012