In the mix: Mako Vunipola
England head coach Stuart Lancaster has handed prop Mako Vunipola and hooker Tom Youngs squad calls ahead of their upcoming November Series.
The squad is for the game against Fiji at Twickenham on November 10.
32 players will meet at St George's Park, Burton on Sunday, including James Haskell, Ugo Monye, Mako Vunipola and Tom Youngs - all promoted from the England Saxons Elite Player Squad as injury replacements for Tom Croft, Ben Foden, Alex Corbisiero and Rob Webber respectively.
"As a coaching team we can't wait to go into camp and get the guys focused on what will be a massive challenge in the QBE Internationals - Fiji and then the three major Southern Hemisphere teams in successive weeks," said England head coach Stuart Lancaster.
"We have been impressed with some of the rugby we have seen in the Aviva Premiership and Heineken Cup and are looking forward to the players bringing that form to Twickenham.
"It's great to be able to give Mako a chance in the squad. He has come through our age grade sides and made a real impact at Saracens. Likewise Tom Youngs, who was with us on tour in South Africa, and we know what James Haskell and Ugo Monye are capable of if they get their opportunity."
England will be at the Football Association's new sports training and development centre from Sunday, October 28 to Thursday, November 1 before returning to their usual training base of Pennyhill Park, Bagshot on Sunday, November 4 ahead of the Test against Fiji.
Meanwhile, the England Saxons coaching team has been finalised, with John Fletcher joining as backs coach for the internationals against the Ireland Wolfhounds and Scotland A in the New Year.
The former Newcastle Falcons boss returns to Kingston Park on Friday, February 1 for the match against the Scots, a week after the Saxons face the Wolfhounds in Ireland.
Fletcher, the England U18 Head Coach and RFU's Professional Player Development Manager, will join Head Coach Jon Callard, with Simon Hardy responsible for the forwards.
"We are delighted to have John on board as we focus on winning two demanding games. His expertise working with a wide group of players makes him a perfect fit for England Saxons and he'll bring tremendous passion to the role," said Callard.
Backs: Anthony Allen (Leicester), Chris Ashton (Saracens), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish), Ugo Monye (Harlequins), Charlie Sharples (Gloucester), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester), Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester).
Forwards: Mouritz Botha (Saracens), Dan Cole (Leicester), Phil Dowson (Northampton), Dylan Hartley (Northampton), James Haskell (Wasps), Tom Johnson (Exeter), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester), Tom Palmer (Wasps), Geoff Parling (Leicester), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Thomas Waldrom (Leicester), David Wilson (Bath), Tom Wood (Northampton), Tom Youngs (Leicester).
Comments
heart_of_oak says...
I'm lost by Dezz's postings. At one point, the arguments seem to be saying its ok for Vunipola to represent England and at other points, he should be representing Tonga.
May I suggest we all check out PRs excellent and informative article on Mario Ballotelli's girlfriends ? They're a bit easier on the eye than Vunipola but nowhere near as lovely or as seductive as Ann Widdecombe.
Quite why this article is on a Rugby site I do not know but I'm not objecting.
Posted 13:29 30th October 2012
ferdie says...
highlighting the inconsistencies re representation, found this, the IRB list of second national teams, playing for whom rules a player out of going on the represent another country. If Mako Vunipola had already played for Saxons, not just been in their squad, he would have been ineligible to represent any other country having committed to England, as Saxons are England's designated second national team.
http://www.irb.com/mm/Document/LawsRegs/Regulations/02/06/29/68/nsrt.pdf
Same applies to those players in the match Irish Wolfhounds (Ireland XV) v Fiji November 17, 2012.
France, South Africa and Wales use their Under 20 sides.
Posted 12:28 30th October 2012
lawynd says...
So if I'm not English Dezz, please do enlighten me as to my nationality. ;)
Posted 10:27 30th October 2012
TVaddict says...
@Dezz
Lol! Well I think your childish insult says more about what goes on in your head rather than mine! I love that in a message about me not understanding you you've written the sentence, "Please can you point where you are born instantly trumps your heritage." Is that meant to be a sentence? If so can you please post the phone number of your carer so I can tell them to check in on you a bit sooner, god forbid you hurt yourself. Try to stay calm and stay away from sharp objects for the time being.
@lawynd
Thank you for your excellent post.
@Dezz (your reply to lawynd)
That is genuinely a very offensive thing to post, and I'd say that is actually racist. Why don't you get you head out of The Daily Mail and meet some real people? You have all the multicultural finesse of an inbred village idiot. I repeat my point above about you giving us your carers phone number, though I retract my concern about you hurting yourself. I'm more worried about those 'foreign folk' who you must look at with fear and hate as they come here taking your jobs and women, forgetting that you have no job or women because your an idiot. If you ever manage to catch up with the modern world let us know won't you, though till then don't bother sharing any more of your archaic views please.
Posted 17:42 29th October 2012
APV1 says...
@ lawynd - good to see I'm not the only wholly-mongrel Englishman on the site. I was born in England to a Dutch father and Irish mother, although there's a little Spanish and Scotish there too...
However, typical of an Englishman and in contrast to you, I only speak two languages:
English and VERY - LOUD - AND - SLOW - ENGLISH (for all those blasted foreigners!).
@ Dezz (are you also "dezz" with a small D..?) - you've lost me. Are you saying that place of birth is irrelevent and it's your parents who dictate your nationality? That's nonsense. I am English, despite neither of my parents being English.
Posted 17:12 29th October 2012
7ton says...
jaswai
Love the title "Poachfindergeneral S Jones" brilliant :D
Just to add a little more detail Mako Vunipola actually first arrived in Wales with his Father who played for Ebbw Vale. He then later moved to England at what age I don't know. He used to play with along side his cousin (I think) Toby Faletau the Welsh player for New Panteg rfc when they were kids. Toby came to Wales when he was 7 with his Father who played for Pontypridd.
Best of luck to them both
Posted 15:21 29th October 2012
Dezz says...
@ Lawynd. Vunipola is probably all tongan due to his mother and father being Tongan, nothing to do where he is born because he was born in New Zealand but some NZers claim his as a fona bide NZer. That was the point about where my brother was born. He isn't German just because he was born their. The point I'm trying to make is that you can play for who you want now a days. What it doesn't make you is of that country. Falateau might feel Welsh but he isn't, Vunipola might feel English but he isn't. I could play for China after residency but that doesn't make me Chinese. You yourself have no know English in you but you feel English because I'm assuming you've grown up there and lived there the longest. Not everyone chops and changes their nationality depending on where or how long they've been in a country.
I've been on holiday this year but didn't class myself as Spanish for 2 weeks.
Posted 14:19 29th October 2012
lawynd says...
@Dezz - your points are terribly inconsistent. First of all you claim that Vunipola is 'probably all Tongan' because of where he's born, ditto Faletau. In the next breath, you're telling us that your brother isn't German even though he was born there...so which is your actual point? I'm sure I know the answer but for the benefit of us mere peons who don't have any conspiracy theories bouncing around inside our heads, please, enlighten us.
As it is, you're horribly out of touch with reality and are inflicting your own personal views, not facts, on other people. Just because you would always choose to play for Wales it does not mean other people have to feel the same. Plus, as you mentioned, you grew up there and only moved to England as an adult. I was born in Sweden to a Finnish-German mother and an Irish father, moved to Germany when I was two and England when I was eight. I acknowledge and appreciate my various heritages but to me, I'm English. I grew up here, most of my memories are of places and people in England, my brother and sister were born here. The only real difference between me and another Englishman is that I speak five languages. ;)
So, given that both Vunipola and Faletau are in the same boat as me (rugby talent aside, sadly), who are you to judge us?
Posted 10:24 29th October 2012
dezz says...
@ trannyaddict. I'm sorry you can't understand what I've written but that's your fault. Please can you point where you are born instantly trumps your heritage.
Posted 01:44 29th October 2012
kybone says...
jaswai- I think you misunderstood what i meant. Im not saying that people on here are racist. What i meant was that the likes of Vunipola and Tuilagi are singled out more than others because they are polynesian. As i said earlier, if a white player with an english sounding name was called up to the squad under exactly the same circumstances i.e. born elswhere and moved here aged 7, nobody would think anything of it.
Posted 15:08 28th October 2012
jaswai says...
Hmm - seems to have degenerated into when-all-else-fails-play-the-race-card and wait for every one to back off screaming. Like the fat kid taking a dump in the pool because he likes his own company.
Look, you guys have been giving it full noise via the Poachfinder General S.Jones on everyone else et al for years - so take some of it back and show that mythical stiff upper lip hasn't been supplanted a frosted monocle. Vunipola isn't the best example, to be fair yet accusations of racism and jingoistic parochialism by reply isn't a balanced riposte.
So here's the deal, if Daniel Bowden and Sean Maitland aren't playing for England/Scotland, respectively, this time next year we promise to never mention it again and you can continue to visit the NZ seconds store. You'll do brilliantly. Good luck and continue to swing very low.
Posted 11:55 28th October 2012
kybone says...
I think some poster's on here have hit a point about some views bordering on racism. All i will say is this- If Mako Vunipola's name was Dave Evans and he was born in Wales or Scotland and moved to England at age 7/8. Then went on to play for England. No-one would have anything to say. Because Vunipola has dark skin and a foreign sounding name, people are all over it accusing England of poaching, and Vunipola of disloyalty to his family and country of birth.
The vast majority of white Aussies, Saffas, and Kiwis can trace their family history back to somewhere in Europe, so none of them, by some people's logic, are really native to their country. The question is where do you draw the line and say you're now a native. Its just a ridiculous argument.
Players moving, mid career, abroad with the express intention of representing that nation- now that i don't agree with.
Posted 13:21 27th October 2012
7ton says...
Heathy
If Mako Vunipola has been in England since he was 7/8 as you say then he is certainly entitled to play for England and nobody should begrudge him for doing so.
However with similar circumstances NZ has had the finger pointed at them for years and even now. Much of this has come from the British press'it's readers and fans so don't be too surprised if you get some it back and few posters poke a bit of fun
Posted 01:36 27th October 2012
TVaddict says...
@Dezz
It's hard to follow your rambling points. So within the same argument you said where your born doesn't matter, where you've lived longest doesn't matter, and to some extent blood ties don't matter. What you seem to imply that matters is simply whatever opinion the person involved thinks is their country. Well there's no way to monitor that, so I guess we're back to square one.
If your implying that where most of your genetic material comes from is what matters then some very basic history discredits that. People have moved around the world for thousands of year. Do americans consider themselves german (surprising that is where the majority can trace their roots to)? Do Australians consider themselves English? Of course not. So when would you say they make that transition from country A to country B if it's not where they're born or the time they've spent there?
Posted 23:33 26th October 2012
carpelone says...
Vultures
Posted 22:15 26th October 2012
Dezz says...
Regarding Britain being a multicultural country is wrong. Thats what the marxists in power want you to believe.
Anyway, Vunipola (sorry if the spelling is wrong) is probably all Tongan (correct me if I'm wrong). Thats it. He's a Tongan born in New Zealand playing for England same as Faletau plays for Wales. Doesn't make either of them English/Welsh or British.
My brother was born in Germany but he isn't German. He could represent Germany due to birth and England due to our mother being half Welsh/half English if he wanted to (and if he was good enough). My father has spent most of his life (approx 55%) in Hong Kong since his birth there due to his parents being in the military. He isn't chinese or whatever people from Hong Kong describe themselves as.
I've spent most of my adult working life working in England (being in the forces) but I'm still Welsh (with a bit of English) but have never and would never dream of playing for England at any sport because I'm Welsh and always wanted to represent Wales or GB.
Who in there right mind dreams of growing up and playing for another country...... especially since your father played for his country. Where is the pride in your family history if you can play for Your country but choose to play for another.
Rant over. He looks like he could do some damage for England.
Posted 15:44 26th October 2012
heathy says...
Some of these comments about foreigners are making me laugh. Unfortunately we don't make up the rules. What is the biggest laugh is that the Kiwi's think Mako is one of theirs. Ha, ha ha. This is the funniest thing of all as what they are saying about England, they are inadvertently saying to themselves. Mako's heritage is Tonga you muppets. Yes, he was born in NZ because his dad was playing rugby there. The UK as a nation has 24% of the people that gave birth last year registered as immigrants. Do they all become English now? No, they all bugger off back home!! Please don't give me, he was born here so he's ours. If so, why didn't you guys pick him? The fact is you have a policy re players playing in NZ. That's fine guys but don't have a go at the rest of the world for doing what you guys do and have done for years, well before England even picked a player of different heritage. You are all so blinking hypocritical it is you who make yourselves the laughing stock. Mako was here at 7/8. For all we knew he could have been a bricky¿s labourer by now. Some that already played rugby in another country and have been picked out as potential and persuaded over, I agree with (although, again, we don't make the rules). If they are causing you so much concern, why didn't you pick them? If they weren't good enough for you then stop whinging as surely, you couldn't care. But you all do, so very much. It's hilarious.
Posted 14:51 26th October 2012
TVaddict says...
@costa
Agreed. Inspired by that I think I'll get started making a forum where we can moderate against such a boring topic. All rational people will be welcome!
Posted 14:37 26th October 2012
tha_mai says...
bravo costa, APV1 etc - yes haven't we had enough of this topic?
I don't care where, or who for, as long as they meet the requirements. Ranting endlessly here is nought but a bore.
Posted 13:54 26th October 2012
Felly says...
To the narrow-minded socially conservative minded folk out there who complain of 'poaching'.....welcome to the multicultural future my friends, where place of birth matters little and where one is going, what/whom they wish to represent, matters more - why deny someone that on the back of people's personal self-righteous views on the world! Take a trip to London, meet people from all over the world, hear them speak of their pride and enjoyment of living in London (some may not admittedly), realise that the world is different place from the very simplistice, rationalistic approach to whom/what/where a person should represent, hopefully change one's persona = liberal thinking prevails. Yusssss!!!!!!
Posted 11:55 26th October 2012