Toulon: Importing
This week we will mostly be dealing with proportions, powers, naming rights and just desserts...
While in other countries the situation seems to have been brought under control, in France the issue of foreign players still appears to be one that needs looking at.
Toulon and Clermont, both by some distance now the form teams of the competition, both had over half of their starting XVs pulled from pastures distant. Toulouse had only five, but brought on a few others. Montpellier fielded eight as well, while Biarritz weighed in with five.
Meanwhile, Saracens, rarely shy of hauling in an import or two themselves, managed to line-up opposite Munster with 12 English players (leaving aside the fact that some of the players' claims to Englishness are tenuous at best), while Munster also fielded 12 Irish starters. Ulster also fielded only three non-Irish starters, Leinster two. Leicester lined up with 12 English starters as well, while the Ospreys counted 13 Welshmen in their ranks.
The clamour has grown from the UK over the financial disparity between the British and French leagues, while in France a couple of years ago the Top 14 appeared to be putting into place some mechanisms to deal at least with the complaints internally that the league was being devalued by the sheer number of journeymen.
So far, there is little evidence that these mechanisms in France are doing anything other than making sure the importers look for cheaper sources of labour, while in the UK teams are doing well to work around the economic pinch and bring up a new generation.
Of course, the logical follow-on from this would be to shrug and say: 'oh well, the French will notice the effects at national level soon enough', but this is not happening. Philippe Saint-Andre fielded many a sprightly and talented youngster over November and we all know how good France looked at times. The Six Nations is theirs for the taking right now.
Nor is there really an argument for complaining that something ought to be done. It would be nice to see a strength-on-strength league in Europe, but we're going to have to accept that it just isn't going to happen. It's also great to see teams like Clermont at full tilt, with world class in every position and on the bench.
But what is worth considering is this: France's league is in great health at the moment, with a financial clout way above what can be found on the islands, a fervent and colourful fan base and a posse of teams poised to run riot in Europe.
While all the sides wrangle over the future of the Heineken Cup - nothing was once again comprehensively decided this week - it would do all the politicos well to think about this. If French rugby continues to dominate in this way, the most powerful negotiating position in terms of Europe is on the French side...
Greg Peters is right to remain non-committal on the new TMO powers currently being trialled in the Aviva Premiership and Currie Cup.
He is also right to say that there needs to be very clear guidelines on: "...things like who initiates the review, the referee or the TMO? How far do you go back in the movement? Was there foul play downfield, was there a forward pass back on the 22m and if it was a line-ball you have to take the camera angle into account too."
Not that we are particularly against the TMO powers being extended, but it would be a dreadful mistake to empower players to ask for TMO referrals. You can only begin to imagine how that privilege might be abused.
Increasing TMO jurisdiction also takes the onus away from the decision-making on the field, as we have seen so far in the Premiership where assistants and referees have frequently gone upstairs to get some remarkably clear-cut decisions confirmed.
Asking for referrals on fights or serious foul play? Yes. An instant deterrent to a player who thinks about going in fists flying. Referrals on the act of scoring? So far so good. Referrals perhaps on the final phase of play leading up to the try? Not a bad thing. That's where it ends. People on the pitch are employed to make the calls and be accountable for them. It's part of the game. leave them to it.
The Brumbies have the Larkham-Gregan stand, it's infeasible to think that when their careers are done, Richie and Dan won't have a corner of Christchurch named after them somewhere...
Meanwhile in Perth, a movement is gathering for naming rights too.
The new stand being hoisted at the NIB stadium is yet to be christened, but a wave of supporters are petitioning for it to be named after the Force's most stalwart player in its short history: Nathan Sharpe.
In the light of the frequent gushes of praise lavished upon Sharpie by this column, you'll no doubt be not at all surprised to find out that we think this is a fantastic idea.
So should you agree with us, have a little visit here and add your voice to the masses...
How quickly things come around.
Penalty Saracens, followed by a bit of afters childishly started by Owen Farrell, who having sparked the handbags stepped back and threw his hands up in the hair with a true 'ice-cream wouldn't melt in my armpits' expression all over his face.
Jerome Garces then proceeds to move over to the captains and issue some rather rudimentary and heavily-accented words of warning and then ambles back over to Farrell, who is planting the tee for the three-pointer.
But wait...something's wrong.... oh no, hang on, the kick was by the 5m dashed line, not the 15m one. Cue another raise of hands and another 'I am just a young lad playing a game I love' look of shocked innocence...
Farrell, having started a scrap and then tried to steal ten metres with the kick, lines it up. And pushes it gloriously right.
Question is, had he simply started focussing on the kick the moment the whistle went and the arm went up rather than prat around with BJ Botha and tried to con the referee, would he have made it?
Loose Pass compiled by Richard Anderson
Comments
celticspirit says...
Oh, and the strength of a Rugby nation does not only depend on playing numbers of those playing professionally and whether there are many foreigners among them, of course but on the whole structure and the amateur game that lies underneath. And on schools and youth teams. That is why Scotland are struggling so badly...
And what is that drivel about passes looking more forward on TV or the slow motion exaggerating the forward motion? That is not bloody physics! In physics, an object may move on a trajectory in a certain direction. It can be decided if it is forward or not (in a Rugby-sense) and that is much easier on TV and in slow motion, especially with multiple angles.
And if a try scored was irregular because the pass just outside the 22 was forward, well, it is still a forward pass and no team can complain to be hard done by. If you pass it forward you lose the ball. End of story. Ref may not see it but God does - or at least the TMO. So if ref decides to ask: good on him. Just look at Basketball: in decisive situations they can always have replays on most things. At least if you win, you know you have won fair and square - or in most cases at least because there is still always margin for (more) error, like the TMO not being involved or something happening earlier... bUt why not allow the referee to use the TMO as much as feels best?
Posted 00:20 20th December 2012
celticspirit says...
GCP_jones is right about there not being that many French teams that benefit, in fact most struggle (see the forced relegations of Montauban, Bourgoin and almost even Stade Francais). But I disagree with most here that France will have to pay for that structure in the long run:
a)APV1 is right: the French just have more players to start with. I mean, just compare 14 clubs to Scotlands or Italy's 2. So what, even if 10 of them had foreign players ONLY, they would still have twice as many "native" clubs as Scotland would (given that all their players were even Scottish...). You get the point.
b) FRA will actually benefit! How? Rugby played as in Toulon and Clermont is popular, not just there, but with other fans as well. More fans will be created, more young people may want to play this game that they then see on TV more often (especially if Les Bleus do well)... etc etc. I guess it is just very hard to predict what kind of cause will have what kind of effect. It is very subtle. I mean, how long have the Kiwis been complaining about the exodus of their (admittedly older) players just like the Welsh now. Well, what it does for them is guarantee a steady influx of young new talent because the old guard go to Europe. Melkdave's idea for HC qualification seems reasonable even though I still dont know what the English clubs are whinging about. It is not like Leicester cant rest their players against Newcastle, Sale, Bristol or who ever else are (perennial) bottom teams over the years. So what is their problem. Life is about priorities, get on with it. You field whom ever you want, you wont miss out on qualification. Focus on one competition one year and on the other the next. not like you can always plan on winning both anyway... From the "Celtic" perspective. Does it really matter if no-hopers like Edinburgh (this year) or Dragons or Connacht are in the HC?
Posted 00:05 20th December 2012
Iyhel says...
@simojuke: to be fair, excitement didn't exactly rhyme with Top14 during the past few years. It looks like it's reaching some kind of balance this year, with more attacking play and more candidates for the play-offs (well for ranks 4 to 6 at least) but I'm not sure if it's durable.
Posted 21:28 19th December 2012
Rosbif says...
hehehe Toulousain, be careful, or the SH types will start to say you are making excuses......or worse still, whingeing....
Posted 19:03 19th December 2012
simojukes says...
i am not a big fan of farrell, but this is a bit full on. also if you care to watch the game back, i believe you should see farrell put the tee down where the ref was standing... as most kickers do.
lay off the lad for a bit and just let him play rugby.
As for the French issue. the solution is simple, remove the salary cap in england, or at least have young english talents' salaries exempt for the club. i know the celtic nations cannot compete financially at the moment, but at least let the english have a go, that way the Heineken will become the best club competition in the world, therefore bringing more investment to the hemisphere, and the celts should see a fair share of that.
The money goes where the excitement is, look at the football prem, no cap, therefore billionaire owners. its beginning in france. we all either need to counter it, or embrace it and watch more of the top 14.
Posted 21:53 18th December 2012
Toulousain says...
@lyhel. agree with you 100% re club vs country in france.
re the apparent strength/depth of the french HCup sides at present, there is an ironic article by guy noves on the toulouse website where he bemoans the mini-crisis at ST right now with injuries and tiredness. the ospreys game was proof of that. his international players were away with france, argentina, samoa etc and got beaten up. his non-intl players played too many T14 games in a row during their absence and got beaten up. now he has a squad of tired/injured players that are looking to scrape through the next 3/4 rounds of T14 without losing too many points, and to stay as fresh as they can for the last 2 rounds of HCup. but he is far from certain of making it out of the pool.
his attitude and priorities are clear. international games are just a plain nuisance for him. he is jealous of laporte since Hayman, Sheridan, Jenkins, Wilko, Giteau Smith, Armitage x2, etc do NOT get the international call-ups. same with Byrne, Sivi, Nalaga, James, Zirak, Hines, Cudmore etc at ASM. these are really the most valuable players of all. international class. but pure club players.
let's wait for april to see how "strong" the french teams look in hcup then.
then let's see how many injuries in the T14 final phase knock-out rounds (and how many tries are scored this year).
then (without laughing or crying) let's round up anyone left standing and stick them on a plane to NZ for a 3 test series, where the prep time for the 1st test is 2 days.
what a joke!
(maybe PR can write an article about the strength of french rugby when we come home from nz with 3-0 defeat, losing the last test by 50+ points)
Posted 20:34 18th December 2012
Iyhel says...
Re. French clubs vs national team, APV1 says it all.
What is surprising actually, considering the figures, is that we have failed so far to consistently dominate rugby - or at least compete on par with Sanzar.
The fact is that the French team has been misfiring and underachiveing for quite a long time because of the strength of our clubs who are always fighting with the federation.
Like it or not, the wealth of the Top14 is more important to those who decides than the results of the national team.
(by the way there is a salary cap, as well as an obligation to field players from the rugby school of the clubs - hence the high number of young islanders in said clubs...)
Posted 13:07 18th December 2012
chancer says...
Once the sport went pro, the recruitment of outsiders was a natural consequence, including the co opting of PI players into the NZ sphere. Please stop bashing NH when the issue is not unique to them.
Posted 07:58 18th December 2012
Jmehrtens says...
This Farrel bashing is getting a bit old.
Posted 06:17 18th December 2012
Startledwombat says...
Oh it all went to hell in a handbasket when the game went professional.
Posted 20:54 17th December 2012
gingergenius says...
Might have to start copyrighting some of my comments if they're going to appear in special features! ;)
Anyway, Farrell was cheeky to move the penalty in, but when he got found out he had a little chuckle - not 'trying to look innocent' at all, just trying to see what he could get away with. No harm in that.
As for the initial incident - all he did was wrestle Zebo to the ground, which started out as the two involved in the breakdown. Zebo overreacted and sent all the Righteously Indignant Munstermen in after him.
The real 10 from the weekend that needs talking about is Ronan 'Prick' O' Gara, who has yet more to add to his list of offences to the sport of rugby and the spirit of human decency.
On Munster's second-most threatening piece of play from Sunday (the one where Saracens were camped in their half, made an error and saw the ball hacked downfield for Luke O'Dea to lose the footrace with Alex Goode), Ronan sees the opportunity, for the first time in his career, to make a tackle, and promptly does so on the unsuspecting Will Fraser. Unfortunately, Will is around 20m from the breakdown, and, nonplussed at having been brought down from behind, evidently engages in a little bit of handbags and namecalling.
Suffice to say, after the half-time whistle is blown, Will bends down to do his shoelaces, and once more the poor unsuspecting fellow falls victim to Ronan the Prick coming up from behind with a little barge.
Add these to his single-handed botching of the Lions tour, childishly deciding not to shake the hands of another country's head of state, writing letters of complaint to journalists criticising his performance, among other things, and you begin to wonder if NSW 2001 wasn't karma pre-empting itself.
Posted 17:10 17th December 2012
TVaddict says...
-(leaving aside the fact that some of the players' claims to Englishness are tenuous at best) = Boring. Surely even the anti-English trolls must be getting tired of this topic.
-All players 'prat about' like Farrell did. Why did it even warrant a mention?
-The French national team will suffer with their league structured as it is, but not for another 10 years or so. These things take time to take effect, and it'll probably become apparent only in certain specialist areas like 10 and second row. Consider that Toulon, Clermont, Biarritz, had all foreign second rows with Racing Métro, Toulouse, Castres having only one french second row. Plus normally Toulon, Clermont, Toulouse, Racing Métro and Montpellier have a foreign player playing at 10. It'll have to have an effect long term.
-I'm a big fan of increasing the powers of the TMO, the more right decisions that can be made in a game the better. Technology is something to be embraced and used and rugby has often been at the forefront of this kind of thinking. Let's not go football like and start worrying about change.
Posted 16:00 17th December 2012
GCP_jones says...
The reality in France is that only about 3 may be 4 clubs have that financial clout while the rest of the teams are getting themselves in to depth just trying to keep up with the likes of Toulon.
So you will get the same sides competing for the trophies while the rest of the Top 14 will be there to fulfill the fixture list.
I do think the salary cap has got to come in, not just for the teams in the top 14 but also the teams around Europe.
Posted 15:11 17th December 2012
Danatthecorner says...
"Farrell, having started a scrap and then tried to steal ten metres with the kick, lines it up. And pushes it gloriously right."
It appears since Ben Youngs hasn't misbehaved recently you've had to find a new bete noire; will you grow up. Every single time anything happens involving an English player you pile into it in this feature. It was a penalty to Sarries and the Munster player caused Farrell to behave stupidly that by holding on to the ball.
In the context of the match it was a nothing incident. Far less of a talking point than the shellacking Sale took at Toulon; the Sean O'Brien early and high forearm smash on Sivivatu that pretty much settled the game or Alain Rolland awarding a penalty try for a collapsed maul a full 10 metres from the tryline. Of course you wouldn't have then had an opportunity to have a moan at the English again would you.
Posted 14:46 17th December 2012
markpat says...
Having watched a lot of the ITM cup and the new laws on the TMO, I'm not a fan of them reviewing forward passes. Anything even remotely close to flat was being called forward on reviews, I don't think even one was classed as back or flat.
Unfortunately, slow motion really exagerrates the forward momentum put on a ball as the runner is in motion (simple physics).
I want to see foul play be reviewable in-game though. Originally, I thought that was what the white card was for, so the game could continue and the culprit be penalised once the TMO had a decision.
Posted 14:01 17th December 2012
melkdave says...
PS
forgot to mention ,it would mean if no scotish or italian welsh irish team finished in the top 6 one or two of the top 6 missing out so every nation can patcipate in the HC ,but then we have that in PRO12 now .
Posted 12:55 17th December 2012
melkdave says...
The player situation in France ,will eventually catch up with the national team .these things always do.Then again if the french clubs have the money why shouldnt they try and bolster their chances of success ,by getting quality players though out the squad.It makes their fans happy to see them wining,and attendances are up on last year.At the end of the day it is a bussiness,and far betterto be making money than not just ask the welsh / scottish teams if they would swap places ,bet they would in a heartbeat LOL
As to the HC well i may have a workable compromise.Pro12 qualification is cut to 6 teams ,but every nation is gaurenteed a qualifyier.It does mean that the Pro12 nations having to accept that only 50% of their teams wil qualifyso ie Ireland two teams ,Wales two teams and Scotland /Italy one team each highest in league best to sort who exactly,This with the 6 from the AP and Top14 would give us 18 teams ,then you add the AMLIN winner ,and last years champions. for 20 toal.If they are qualified already then you go to 7 th ranked team in revalent league no matter what nation they are from. for the champions ,and the beaten finalists for AmlinIt answers all the biggest sticking points imo,and ensures every nation has paticipation,whilst ensuring some qualification battles in the Pro12 as al the irish teams can potential qualify imo,along with the welsh and both scottish atm,Zebras might need a year or two but eventually they shuld beable to qualify aswell.
Posted 12:49 17th December 2012
APV1 says...
8 French players x 14 teams = 112
13 Welsh players x 4 = 52
Extend the logic to the match-day squad and the Club squad in general and you get the idea.
Perhaps that's one reason why the French national team isn't stuggling - simple maths, really.
TMO powers are being trialled. Isn't that exactly what any trials are for? To see what works and what doesn't? You trial on a small scale (AP and CC in this case) and roll out a finished product once the information is available. No-one usually expects things to be perfect first time, so why should we in this case. At least they're trying something!
I think, just to spite a certain poster on this site, that the Nathan Sharpe Stand should be ceremoniously opened by George Smith (the real one)!
And why does PR and RA have such a downer on Farrell? He's not the best player in the world, I grant you. But he's pretty much done all that's been asked of him. So he started some handbags and backed-off when the bigger boys got involved. That's not unheard of for a 10 is it? So he either made a mistake or tried to be a little sneaky. So what? How many players have pushed their luck and tried to get a few extra yards in the past? And it also wasn't his fault he was nominated for the POTY award.
Leave the lad be, he's not that bad.
Posted 12:40 17th December 2012
Sasquatch says...
Richard, I think young Owen is still venting his frustration after not running away with the POTY.
Posted 12:29 17th December 2012
jestnation says...
I really like the point you made about Farrell.
Then again I've always been a big fan of pointless conjecture conveying an editorial agenda filling the space that could have ben taken up by some form of journalism.
Keep up the gibberish
Posted 12:00 17th December 2012