heart_of_oak says...

markpat, well, I too could be wrong. Wikipedia and co can be wrong and it's highly likely Greenwood will have played the odd game at outside centre. It's just that when I saw your post I felt sure he was an inside centre and that he played there for Leicester tigers.

But my initial point wasn't so much about Greenwood as about our lack of a really good inside centre in the English game at the moment. I feel strongly that putting Manu in that position is wrong. I think the position calls for more skills than Manu has - don't get me wrong, I think he's a great player and he'd always be one of the first names in my England team. But to build on your analogy, if Manu is our Tindall, who is our Greenwood - if you get my drift.

The current favourite for inside centre, if fit, seems to be Brad Barritt. He's not a bad player. He's got great defence but I don't see much creativity from him. With Barritt injured, England turned to JJ but, if I'm not mistaken, they moved Manu inside and put JJ outside him. This meant the creative spark - if it didn't come from the fly half and it rarely does in England - had to come from Manu.

It's all a bit 'hopeful' for me. I don't like seeing players put in positions where they don't specialise. I'd like England to spot and then develop several really good inside centres who specialise in that role, and then develop them the way you've done with players in NZ. Imagine NZ saying "we've lost Carter, let's put Nonu in his role and hope for the best". Would NZ do that ?

Posted 13:56 27th June 2012

markpat says...

@heart_of_oak, Greenwood played outside Tindall or Catt at the World Cup. On the whole, England used Tindall as a ball crashing inside centre to get over the gain line before offloading to Will Greenwood.

However, yes, he played inside Jeremy Guscott and Tindall playe outside centre both at club level and for England once Will Greenwood retired.

I don't think you'll ever find Catt lining up outside Greenwood.

However, I'm willing to accept that he plays both ;-).

If random links prove points, then here's one from the telegraph, rather tha wiki answers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/greatestxv/8729563/Greatest-Rugby-World-Cup-XV-Outside-centre-profiles-Will-Greenwood.html

Posted 12:17 26th June 2012

Artherfish says...

@ NHsaints

Good round up of how things stand NH.

As all fans do i started the tour hopeing for wins and feel a tad down that we did not get one. However if we stand back and look objectivly we did ok. If you take the ages of our players pluss the low number of caps and set it gainst South Africa's plus thier home advantage and a history of thumping visiting Northern teams we held our own. It would be a harsh ,propbably biased, critic that would call the tour bad. We lost matches we had a chance to win, but they were only chances. Unlike wales that lost matches they should have won. they had the beating of Aus and gave it away by mistakes. Infact the real diference between the north and the south at the moment is the catastrophic number of unforced errors the north make ( i include poor positional kicking in that) Irland can be excused a bit in that as the All blacks rembered they were world champs on saturday and seemed that Irlands batteries ran out after the first two tests. It will be an interseting start to the season come the autumn and an even more interesting 6 nations. Who has learnt the most from thier tours? Scotland..Easier games but posative results. Irland.... bad results, plenty of guts but an aging squad. England, Wales, could a should a ought a... !!!! France Itally?????

Posted 11:13 25th June 2012

markpat says...

What is the fascination with some people and Cipriani? If England seriously consider him as an international number 10, I need to looking if I have a decent shout at changing nationality.

As for the midfield partnership, how can you decide after 2 games that Tuilagi/Joseph isn't working? They are both 21 and haven't played together. They then played in 2 games where they had very little ball.

I remember watching Nonu at 12 when he started and everyone saying that his distribution wasn't up to it and he was all just power, look at him now that NZ have stuck with him.

For a few years, I thought NZ had it wrong by persisting with Conrad Smith at outside centre, but the pair have turned into undoubtedly the best centre partnership in the world for a fair few years now.

SBW has no distribution skills, other than one-handed offloads, but he is improving.

Young players need time, especially at international level.

I don't see Tuilagi as a winger, he doesn't have the pace. I don't see him as an outside centre either, normally your outside centre is a very good ballplayer - I'm struggling to think of a good outside centre that is solely a bruising power runner. With the reference to England needing another Will Greenwood, he was an outside centre with ball skills, with Tindall inside as a power runner, very similar to Tuilagi.

Posted 10:25 25th June 2012

payve says...

@ sandal. If I remember rightly he used to be a teacher as well. Good old supportive Mr Lancaster.

Posted 01:15 25th June 2012

astrospange says...

Interesting to see what happens when Danny Cips gets back in the mix.

Posted 17:31 24th June 2012

hayj05 says...

@backnforward - Good call

@Sandal - Funny stuff.

Posted 14:02 24th June 2012

sandal says...

Lancaster always does find the positives, real or otherwise. Is he the mum of this team? I might start calling him that.

That said, he is doing a good job with an inexperienced team.

Posted 11:35 24th June 2012

backnforward says...

To London Wasp from a Spanish Wasp!

Don't need Farrell full stop on his current form.

Poor decision making, looked well out of his depth and his kicking from hand was dreadful.

He has lots of potential but for now needs to go back to his club and decide where he wants to play - 10 or 12. Then take it from there.

Posted 10:57 24th June 2012