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pogmahon says...

LieweHexie... I didn't miss your point. I said the standard was poor, you implied that as the levels of enterprise were better, then the standard is not bad. Not the same thing by a long way. The standard of rugby in the premiership is not good. They might try very hard, the might be very inventive, they might even be talented. That doesn't stop the standard being poor.

I would offer you a compromise though. I would rather pay £20 to go watch Northampton play Wasps for example than pay £2 to go watch England play Scotland. And I suppose that about sums up both of our positions.

Posted 21:08 18th March 2010

LieweHexie says...

Pogmahon

You missed my point about the foreign players in the Premiership........they clearly raise the standard, which doesn't leave much when you strip the league of their talent. Ireland, on the other hand, with far fewer players to call on, do a good job of mixing a smaller number of imports with their own players in the regional teams. They also have the advantage of having the vast majority of their national squad in just two teams, Leinster and Munster, which promotes greater cohesion, as combinations can be developed more easily in match situations.You reinforce that very same point in naming at least three pairs of locks.

The Premiership is an amalgam of Argentinian, French, Italian, Pacific Island, South African, New Zealand and Australian talent (that's where the enterprise comes from), with a handful of locals to fill in the gaps; where's your team building in that lot?

As for the Premiership being the best league competition in the world......well that's just laughable!

Posted 05:24 17th March 2010

pogmahon says...

LieweHexie... The standard of play may not be bad but that does not make it good. Also the standard is raised by the foreign players not lowered. There is a myth, perpetuated by Sky Sports mainly, that the English Premiership is the best league competition in the world and this is clearly untrue. Look at the quarter-final line up in the Heineken Cup. Genuinely and without malice I cannot think of one player in the English side that would get into either the Irish or French sides. In fact I can name 8 Irish second row forwards that would be picked before Borthwick and I am sure the same could be said of the French. O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Casey, Kelly, Cullen, O'Driscoll, Toner and Ryan. That sees the English captain only making the Irish 5th team. So if that's the best the preiership can produce then the standard has to be considered at best mediocre and at worst probably bad.

Posted 09:39 16th March 2010

LieweHexie says...

Pogmahon

The standard of play in the Premiership is not bad and the enterprise shown is way in excess of that on display in the Tests.You are right about the fear factor though; it's especially evident in the England squad.

Another problem may well lie in the fact that so many of the more prominent players in the Premiership are not locals.....they are paid professionals from the southern hemisphere, and they not available to any of the home unions at test level. Collectively they are taking up many spots that could be occupied by promising youngsters.

It's the same in county cricket, though England have somehow managed to wangle five South Africans into their Test Match set-up and there are more on the horizon!

Posted 22:22 15th March 2010

pogmahon says...

Agree with Kije and Swis_loose. Look at any of the post match interviews that the various Irish coaches and players have given and you will hear honest reactions to the match and also heaps of humour. The problem with managing by fear is that all you ever find out is how people react when they are afraid, nothing more. So what is going through the minds of players? Fear. Its certainly not positive and how are you meant to be a winner without positivity. I don't disagree with playing with the points structure but I think in this case it is very far wide of the problem. The problem with England (and Scotland, Italy, and Wales) is that they don't have the players. In the past Gatland has got the best out of his squad but I am 100% certain that Martin Johnson hasn't got a snowballs chance in hell of ever getting the best out of his squad. He simply dosen't have the intellect, ability or people skills required. That coupled with the poor standard of play in the premiership and consequntly the poor standard of player means that the French will hammer England on Saturday. Its going to be a very long 80 minutes.

Posted 18:35 15th March 2010

kije says...

No Liewe, fiddling with the points system won't work, it will just move the blockage to another place. The recent moves by referees in the Southern Hemisphere intepreting the tackle area is a good step forward and appears to be working loosening up the defence.

But, the problem at international level is the fear of losing exceeding the desire to win, that's all. The don't lose mentality is evidence of lack of confidence, lack of imagination and lack of belief which will defeat any team esepecially at international level where the margins are close.

Whatever points system you have the team frightened of losing will cripple their game and maybe the match, but they will also generally lose.

Posted 12:00 15th March 2010

kije says...

Briliant comments by MJ, just what a group of players who are frightened of playing their own game for fear of losing their place need; another healthy dose of fear. For heavens sake look at Ireland and France, Declan Kidney and Marc Lievremont's teams develop their players and keep faith in them. The French players are relaxed and confident, the Irish boys are happy and confident. Kidney keeps faith with players because there aren't that many to choose from, but it doesn't seem to matter, Lievremont took time to find the right mix, but now his chosen group of players have the full support of the coach and are thriving - Here is the general strategy, here are our tactical assumptions of the opposition, here are our strengths and their weaknesses Just Do It!, go out and play boys and they do. They aren't robots, they are the elite players of his country they are not stupid nor does he treat them so - consider that Mr,J. In the England set up M. Johnson is creating an atmoshere of fear and a climate of blame, a recipe for disaster, it is obvious from watching the team play. MJ and his coaching team must change or be changed and I would do it now even so close to the World Cup.

Posted 11:50 15th March 2010

benski says...

I agree, the bonus point system as adopted by the Super 14 and Tri Nations is far superior to the current system. Bring it on.

Posted 11:38 15th March 2010

Swiss_loose says...

time to say bye to Martin and steve for sure........

Posted 07:58 15th March 2010

LieweHexie says...

The England/ Scotland game......what a sterile, boring affair! The only interest in the match lay in who would win it.......and neither team could contrive to achieve that!!

The whole Six Nations tournament has progressed along the same lines. Most teams appear to be playing to avoid a loss. Only the French have been able to show flair and lift themselves above mediocrity. Even Ireland have lacked real verve. After the great rugby produced by the Lions in South Africa, what has happened to the skill and artistry displayed there?

Is it not time to fiddle with the points system in an attempt to reward enterprising play? Perhaps a bonus point for 4 tries in a match and another for losing by 7 or less points, like the system adopted by the Tri Nations tournament.

The losing side has more reason to stay in the game, whilst the winners would go all out to gain the 4 try bonus point. Teams behind by more than 7 points would do better by kicking for an attacking lineout rather than going for another boring pot at the posts. Some sense of satisfaction will be found in eaking out a losing bonus point and teams will not sit there with 0 points at the end of a season of endeavour.

England could be sitting there this week contemplating the possibility of scoring four tries against France and taking three points from the game? As it is they won't have scored four tries in the whole tournament!

So, it's time to abandon tradition and come up with a points system that will reward risk taking and bring back the enthusiasm to WIN.

Posted 07:23 15th March 2010

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