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powerplay says...

@carpelone...your kidding me right? "NZ dont have the depth for a 5th team"

Youre right, they have the depth for a 6th team!

Posted 22:17 23rd August 2012

carpelone says...

Crunchfit

I agree on both suggestions. Neither NZ nor SA have the depth for a fifth team. 2nd Division would be great to develop Oz' rugby and maybe Argentina.

Posted 14:03 23rd August 2012

melkdave says...

@Trinats &Ozinlondon

I have to admit i dont know the ins and outs of australian rugby ,after all im english and live in England,But i do worry about the progression path for players ,when you compare the 2 countries Australia seems verty short on actual teams ,here virtually every town has a team ,and cities have several ,SOME EVEN SEMI PRO playing in lower leagues ,where players can hone their skills and get noticed for the age group system or professional team acadamies.I also have to admit i like the australian style of play ,its dynamic and fast flowing.Also when comparing wallaby teams of the past with now including the S15 ,they just dont have the same anount of outstanding players imo.Yes Australia are 2nd in the IRB rankings atm,but i seriously wonder for how long,The present wallaby team has virtually every young outstanding player in it now ,and as ive said its not that young compared to England ,Wales ,Scotland ect with an average age of 26 i think,while England is 23.its the lack of outstanding players comming though that worries me about Australian rugby atm ,not its present team .If my posts are /have raised a debate amongst the wallaby fans ,then perhaps that situation will change,As it would be a crime imo for australian rugby to start to decline ,the more of and better teams are only enhances the game imho

Posted 13:23 22nd August 2012

OzinLondon says...

Melkdave

While I won't assume you have a hatred of all things Aussie, I have to agree with Trinats that your view is either skewed or uninformed.

I find it funny that supporters of teams other than NZ/SA (i.e. NH teams) love telling us how bad Aus rugby is simply because (yet again) NZ has beaten us. This is from supporters of teams who have either NEVER beaten the ABs or haven't beaten them for many years and who would have absolutely no chance of beating them in a 3 match series (even when combining themselves with 3 other countries).

Aus are ranked number 2 in the World because over the past 3-4 years, among all the other wildly inconsistent teams that make up the top 10 (other than NZ), they have managed to beat both the ABs and SA (once in SA) as well as whitewashing the Grand Slam 6N champions (7 times in a row) and France (5 times in a row). They have had wins and losses against England and Ireland and, yes, they have had some shocking performances... but no more so than the similarly inconsistent England, Wales, France and Ireland.

Until the rest of the world start beating SA and NZ... or consistently beating Aus... I think supporters of NH nations should avoid making smug predictions about the demise of Aus rugby simply because the best team in the world beats them. But that's just me.

Posted 10:39 22nd August 2012

Trinats2 says...

melkdave:

Good to hear, although I think your daughter married a league bogan, or you don't speak to him about union here in Brisvegas, because rugby in Brisbane from grass roots to S15 level is very healthy. Reds had over 30,000 members last year, which is huge when you think rugby is a minority sport in Brisbane.

Compared to past years the rugby in Australia looks to be growing. coming 3rd in the RWC (with this very young side is a very good sign of years to come), winning S15 and tri nations last year, although it doesn't seem like it right now, but there have been significant injuries to key senior (24/25 year olds !!) players this and also throughout the S15 campaign.

The likes of Horwill (capt) O Connor, Cooper, Mitchell, Turner, Palu, McCabe to name a few. Even Beale, who played his second game since March (and it showed). And the latest Pocock and Kepu.

At the end of the day it will force Deans to use the 2nd string for some exposure to test match rugby.

Scotland are doing well, they beat the 2nd best team on the planet !!!

Posted 23:01 21st August 2012

new_j4a says...

@JayStarr.."I call on everyone to boycott the Kings games next year. "

Good comment! Well done!! (Short too, good boy!!...)

Posted 17:40 21st August 2012

melkdave says...

@'Trinats2

Again sorry to burst your bubble ,i am an englishman yes ,but i dont hate anything Australian,quite the contrary infact..One of my daughters is married to an Australian ,and lives in Brisbane ive visted the country many a time.The sceanery is spectalar and the people for the most part,very hospitable and welcoming.My posts are intended to highlight just what a precarious posistion Australian rugby is in atm.There is a great shortage of quality players up an comming in Australia,,while the S15 franchises are also struggling to find good players,as borne out by the last S15 overall table where 3 of the bottom 5 where Australian,and the best was in realaity 5-6th .As i said before the total lack of any domestic competion is stopping potential playrers from even trying rugby union,as a sport and they are plumping for League or Rules even football(soccer for our US friends).Just how many potential class players never tried the sport or got a chance to develop their skills ect i wonder,because of this fundamental grassroots lack One of the main reasons Scotland struggle on the world stage is playing numbers ,and thus lack of real quality players .Australia at grassroots leval is even worse than Scotland ,very few actual clubs and no competions.Without your grassroots things will continue to get worse im afraid.The bar for the S15 teams has already been lowered in so far as skill set ect imo

Posted 13:46 21st August 2012

startledwombat says...

Can anyone tell me where to get one of those stupid gold Wallaby hats that look like stunted foxes? The ones they handed out in Sydney on Saturday?

They are even more effective than a beanie or a backward-pointing cap at turning a perfectly-normal looking person into looking like a crazed loon.

In a spirit of high good humour and to recognise the many jokes he has inflicted on us poor punters over the years, I would like to give one of these hats to John O'Neill.

I might just add a comment in the package to say that I don't want 15 sides in Super rugby, nor do I want local derbys. Why? Because the only way to see a good game of rugby here in Australia is when the overseas sides come visit.

Posted 12:58 21st August 2012

JayStarr says...

Where the Cheetahs are the darling team of South Africa (and, dare I say, the other Super Rugby countries too?), the Kings will undoubtedly be the most hated - and they haven't even played a game yet. But for good reason. This whole spectacle has been dispicable...

I call on everyone to boycott the Kings games next year. Don't tune in to watch their games and don't go to the stadium when they are playing you team. Let's protest against this absurdity by voting with our feet. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

I will.

Posted 11:44 21st August 2012

Rosbif says...

@darthbok. sweet!

Posted 11:40 21st August 2012

powerplay says...

@suntzu Agreed! Even 11 would be be awesome!

@crunchfit Yeah, that could work too huh!? Like the comp in France?

@sandal Absolutely, as if they dont have enough rugby already!??

@darthbok..HAHAHAHAHAHAH.....has got to be the funniest comment in ages!!! And well have MUFASA as coach with SIMBA as captain!!! RAFIKI can be the Ref!!!! HAHAHAHAH....

Posted 08:38 21st August 2012

darthbok says...

I have a brilliant idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lets combine the 2 franchises ---

the best players are selected from each to play

and they are called--- wait for it------

THE LION KINGS!

Posted 07:34 21st August 2012

sandal says...

@powerplay

I agree. Let's see a return to Super 12.

The present tournament, which incidentally congests the season, is for Australia's benefit only.

Posted 07:07 21st August 2012

ruckingkiwi says...

Not sure I agree with SA having 4 teams, but 5??

Trinats2, if Beale had been in a position to tackle Dagg then Dagg would have passed inside to SBW (I believe) .. but Beales positioning was so poor the draw and pass wasn't needed.. but either way that was a try, no fullback could have stopped that.

Probably the only way forward for Australia is to get a couple teams, maybe Sydney and Brisbane into the ITM cup so at least 50 odd players are getting proper rugby outside of Super and Tests, a lot like the Saffas allow with the Argentinian side or maybe NZ can also allow 1 or 2 Aussies to sign to each ITM cup squad!

Posted 02:24 21st August 2012

crunchfit says...

@powerplay

Super 12 would be great.

What about a second division?

Posted 01:30 21st August 2012

chocol8thunda says...

If players could play in any country in the S15 and still be eligible for their respective test country, that would fix a lot. Now teams can source players from 4 countries as opposed to 1 and having a couple imports. In fact it would make parity. Players would get to work abroad and still play for their country.

Posted 23:46 20th August 2012

Trinats2 says...

melkdave:

Back to your Sun newspaper for more updates. You're a pom and hate everything Australian (missus run off with an Aussie ?)

10-15 ?? something the Sun wont show is that Australia are ranked 2nd in the world (at the moment) and for some time now, a win on Sat in NZ would cement that.

As for Deans, worst coach ever for Australia, yet still ranked No.2 in the world, imagine we had a good coach !!! And all this without a domestic competition, so imagine we took it seriously or had the number of player pool you do !!

Posted 22:44 20th August 2012

new_j4a says...

@Trinats, Agreed...get rid of Deans ASAP

@all, On the Southern Kings...I am from the Eastern Cape, but will never support the franchise.....I now support any team playing the Kings and I hope that the money grabbing Watson family lose a bundle on this venture.....even the Reds or even one of the other Oz teams...what are their names? So easy to forget!

Posted 17:58 20th August 2012

TVaddict says...

Couldn't South Africa and Australia get rid of one of their weakest clubs each, since they're always at the bottom, then give Argentina two clubs to enter. Would do even more for rugby in Argentina.

Posted 17:37 20th August 2012

melkdave says...

Well the KINGS debarcle just keeps rumbling along,,not satisfied with destroying a franchise on nothing but political grounds.Watson now wants the KINGS place to guareented.Every other S15 team is licking its lips ,at the prospect of 5 gaureented points,if lucky enough to play the KINGS.At least the LIONS where slowly getting better ,and where on the brink of giving most S15 a hard game and no gaureenting 5 pionts every game..

On the C.Shepard question ,i have to agree teams have played very fast and loose with players and caused significant damge to their livlehoods and familys/careers,Decisions have to made quicker and in a reasonable time ,so players dont get caught without a career and earnings or somewhere to live. ectThe Saints decision was way to late and very sloopy deserve a fine for sloopyness if nothing else imo.

Have to agree with PRs assesment of the RC teams ,but id like to add that ,the lack of quality in depth is now really hurting Australia.Journeyman players trying to live with the worlds best ,will always end up losing 99 out of a 100 times.Australia will now slowly start to fall down the IRB rankings and within 5 yrs Australia will be in the 10th to 15 th bracket in the IRB rankings ,unless something is done asap.RD atm is doing a very good job of keeping them competative imo with the players he has to work with.Can still put out a class 15, and a decent 22 but for how much longer i wonder.

Posted 13:44 20th August 2012

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