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melkdave says...

@Kybone

Thank you for the explanition,i understand now why they where introduced .Still think it was a wrong decision in its present format ,to long-winded as you say.As to the B&I cup.i guess they where hoping it would be like the pre proffesional era games,where fans interest was peaked by seeing welsh /irish teams ect touring

Posted 12:50 20th May 2012

kybone says...

melkdave the reason the play-offs were origionally implemented was all to do with money. Basically the rfu informed all clubs playing in the then league 1 that the following season the league would be reduced from 16 to 12 teams and all squads must be full time. A lot of clubs objected to this, especially given the short time frame they had to sort themselves out ( they were told in the April as the plans were to be implemented the following season). The point that the clubs were making was that they were being asked to go full time with less games to bring the cash in. The RFU ended up compromising by coming up with the Mickey Mouse British & Irish Cup, and introducing the long winded play-off system. So there you are. The play-offs were introduced purely to add more games to the fixture list to boost the participating clubs coffers.

Posted 13:54 19th May 2012

FoxandHound says...

There is a reason they call ref's ref's and players players. I cant see why they cant have the scrum the way we had it when I was a pup in nappies. Bound, feed and heave-ho. A true measure of power and skill not this 'attempt to knock the other guys senseless with the 'hit' ' crap.

Posted 09:36 18th May 2012

nefari says...

Where would the advantage of a scrum be? If I was on attack with little chances out wide I'd knock the ball on purpose if I had a strong scrum, so it won't be a 50-50 ball it will be about 70-30... An easy way to pull in defenders will be to knock on, on purpose

Posted 12:21 17th May 2012

melkdave says...

Just a quick post on PLAY OFFS in the Championship ,does anyone understand why they where implemented .As to be honest i can see no valid reason for it?? I can understand why they came into he AP because clubs like Leicester ect lost alot of players to international call ups espically this season with the RWC.But as ive said i can see no reason what so ever for there implementation into the 2nd tier Championship .Maybe some could enlighten me ??

Posted 11:45 17th May 2012

Chancer says...

Promotion should have only one criteria, winning the play offs! Why should promotion candidates invest in infrastructure before gaining promotion when some of the clubs playing in the top league do not meet the criteria. One set of rules for all!

Posted 09:48 17th May 2012

kybone says...

Imo they should take away the 'pause' and the hit from the scrum as they both do nothing but destablise it. So in other words, the two packs would come together in a relatively calm manner ( no hit) to the call of crouch, touch, engage. Then the feed needs to be reffed properly. The reason the feed is always skew is because they get away with it as most refs just can't be bothered to ref it. As for the promotion thing, i think its a good idea for London Welsh to move to Oxford ( not sure their current fan base will agree) especially if it means they can join the Prem. At the moment they're just another team in London with a fairly small fan base i would suggest. A move to Oxford would maybe open the door to a whole new fan base as Oxford don't currently have a decent team. Either way id love to see promotion/relegation happen otherwise the entire championship season has been for nothing.

Posted 17:40 16th May 2012

quietbrit says...

With regards to the Scrum, two simple fixes.

1) Stop the idiocy with 'random timing' so that players can't anticipate. Ref calls it rhythmically and pings players who go early.

2) I would love to see the put in by ref trialled. What I really want to see is scrum halves feeding straight but I'm giving up on that dream...

Posted 13:17 16th May 2012

GCP_JONES says...

startledwombat....

Niot as much of a joke as the League "Scrum", surely to most pathectic spectacle in team sport.

Posted 11:53 16th May 2012

startledwombat says...

@JayStarr

>Put a sensor in the ball

This is remarkably sensible, and very feasible at international and S15/Heinekin etc level. The rig is inexpensive in stadiums, some of which even have roofs right across them.

Tennis works fine with this technology, indeed much better than it used to.

A great idea!

It'll never happen in rugby, not until League do it or they get someone under 70 who knows how to program a DVD player on the IRB. But rugby's need is greater and more urgent, because rugby has scrums that aren't a giggle.

Seeing the ball being hooked by the Number 8 is just a joke.

Posted 11:08 16th May 2012

GCP_JONES says...

@NHsaints.....

what about Mr D Hartley & Co constantly standing up, it does not make the Saints scrum stronger it makes it Illegally.

Posted 10:24 16th May 2012

jontheref says...

J_HKD

"Offside at the scrum for the scrum half needs to be altered so that they cannot advance beyond the shoulder of the front row after the ball has been fed. "

I believe one of the experimental laws for next season, is close to this.

But the defending, (non putting in SH), SH has to stay at the tunnel until the ball is cleared.

Lot of sense discussed here, pity the iRB guru's don't have th same thoughts.

Posted 10:09 16th May 2012

Dingbat32 says...

1) Get rid of crouch, touch, pause............yawn................engage.

2) Nearest touch judge referees one side of the scrum, the ref the other. If in the middle, one touch judge comes onto field and the other temporarily covers full field of play.

This would allow proper policing of scrums, which would lead to decent scrumaging. At the moment the teams with the best scrums are effectively being penalised for no reason, whilst teams with poor scrums (e.g. Australia and Wales) are getting away with murder and quick ball

Posted 10:07 16th May 2012

Ramage says...

@Murph C'mon Queenie was just pointing out the law. 1 just because Rennie says it is so does not make it so. 2 you miss my main point the assistant flagged the incident and it it wasn't a TMO decision. So Lees believed it to be a foul and yes he could be wrong but he too saw what I did a player brought to the horizontal and not put down safely. Penalty and yellow card. 3 The only problem with Ozzie Lees was he was too dumb to get everything right and forgot to get a number either incompetent or very convenient. Which ever it was it wasn't very flattering to the official and of course add your possibility that he go it wrong. Not a good picture for Mr Lees. 4 just because a guy tries to say sorry does not mean he shouldn't be punished had Lees done his job then the player was off the field which could have been a costly blow to the Reds. Never mind it was still a good game of rugby which the Reds deserved to win.

Posted 10:05 16th May 2012

BackingLeinster says...

@moosh

The lean in idea or having the scrum bind up before any pushin isn't a bad idea but placing the ball on the mark would take away the advantage the team who was awarded the scrum have. By feeding it straight from their own scrums loose head side it reaches their hooker first which gives them the best chance of winning the ball, that is if they don't just throw it to the second row.

Posted 10:00 16th May 2012

pog_mahone says...

I agree with the posters whose view is that the referee should simply enforce a straight put in (or at least as long as some part of the ball is over the centre line when it reaches the hookers). There should be a slight advantage to the non-offending side even with everything within the law - but the other side should also have a chance to compete - which they don't unless they are totally dominant.The trouble is that this is not one of the 'laws du jour' of the IRB - let the ball deviate one degree off straight on the throw in and it's called back, but the ball can be fed to the second row in the scrum - no problem. Another annoying one is blockers from the attacking team at the ruck (possibly with the palm of one hand on the pile of his mates prone bodies) standing a mile offside while the defending team are being pushed back by the referee. A ruck is supposed to be one or more players on their feet and bound contesting over a ball on the ground. The ball is nobody's until it is won by energing on one side of the ruck or the other. Anyone seen one of those lately?

Posted 08:57 16th May 2012

rugbyphile says...

Apply the existing laws--no pushing before the feed (Law 20.1(j)) is the one that is almost never applied, almost always broken, and would fix most of the present problems. Also NO contact by the scum-half on his oppponent until the ball is out and the scrum-half whose team has not won the ball in the scrum may not have either foot in front of the ball until the ball is out(Law 20.1(c)) (in fact it would be better to amend the law slightly to say that he should have both feet BEHIND the ball.Jimmy Cowan will probably have to retire but looks like the ABs don't want him anyway.

Posted 08:26 16th May 2012

moosh says...

What about this: I remember a suggestion here a while back about having the front rows lean in, as opposed to the current "engage". That seemed like a sound idea for preventing all the collapsed scrums. If you also want to eliminate crooked put-ins, why not have the ball stationary on the ground, on the mark itself, and lean the front-rows in? The ref could then call the start to the contest for the ball. Sort of like ice hockey.

Posted 22:03 15th May 2012

NHsaints says...

What happened to no pushing until the ball is in? If either team 'pushes' on the engage then penalise them like for an early engagement? If this is first targeted then the scrum will be stable so the ref can watch the scrum half and back rowers more carefully and also the scrum then becomes more of a test of brute strength than who gets the hit on first or can collapse the opposing prop. As a hooker/tighthead I think it would be safer, more efficient and easier for all. Not to mention the '8 vs 7' man argument can be negated as it gives both the teams more flexibility in the scrum to make tactical decisions...such as does the opposing hooker try to steal the feed or do they go for an 8 man push, does the hooker who's put in it is add his strength or get the ball back quickly? Does he go for a push on the timing of the scrumhalf or have his foot ready to swing forward and bring the ball back? Does the front row get a slight wheel on to bring it in to the feet of the hooker better (creating a legal kind of feed). These are all things that would improve the scrum. Then put the ref the opposite side of the scrum to the scrum half so he can watch the feed and suddenly you open up the game to more turnovers or alternately greater set peice dominance, rather than (as a saints fan I find this a constant frustration) the weaker scrum get away with just about clinging on come scrum time it will let a significantly stronger scrum bully the other scrum or where the scrum is just about equal you'll get more turnovers...

Posted 20:44 15th May 2012

JayStarr says...

I think a simple piece of technology would be able to eliminate inconsistency regarding skew scrum- and lineout throws, forward passes, etc:

Put a sensor in the ball. Then, using hawk-eye type techonology, the sensor will pick up when the ball is being passed (by sensing the change in speed) and can then emit a beep in the ref's ear if the ball travels past a certain degree. Or perhaps the TMO can observe the feedback on screens and signal the ref. Either way, no more missed forward passes and scew line-out or scrum throws - and nobody can argue about it, because it's consistent and the same for everybody.

Posted 19:52 15th May 2012

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