tha_mai says...

ruckingkiwi says... twice this year Aussie S15 scouts have been snooping around clubs in Auckland.

well that made me laugh - did they find anyone that Pat Lam/ARU/Blues couldn't? I thought Auckland would be the last place in NZ to look for talent.

Posted 12:49 10th May 2012

ruckingkiwi says...

And feel free to roll out these "facts" you mention too :)

Posted 01:56 08th May 2012

jontheref says...

Lots of comments about refs.

yes, the tackle area is a mess, and they appear to favour to ignore offences by the attacking team, who are allowed to come in from the side, or go beyond and obstruct.

Many of them do not use their TJ's/AR's.

They instruct them to officiate touch and foul play.

Wrong, but it needs to be imposed by the competion referee masters.

Barnes in the clermont semi.

He gave the 2nd Leinster converted PK as an upfield option, exton kicked, Nacwea ran into the back of a player.

Even if it was a PK, it was where the supposed offence took place, not where the ball landed.

This as a simple decision, it should be hard wired into Barnes after so many years refereeing.

Simply not acceptable.

If it had not been given,the repeated PK options at the end, would have won the game for Clermont.

Whether they deserved it, is another issue.

Posted 06:39 07th May 2012

Dingbat32 says...

and to prove the point, look at the graphs on this link. http://www.irb.com/rankings/analysis/index.html

If you plot say SA against England, France and Ireland you see a clear domination.

Aus form is similar to SA over last 8 years, and generally NZ have stayed at Number 1.

Posted 11:03 04th May 2012

blametheref says...

@ruckingkiwi

I haven't made any "excuses", none are necessary because the facts say that rule changes eminate mostly from the say so of Paddy O' Brien who pays more attention to the way the game is played in the SH than in the NH. We see it up here that the changes usually reflect well for The All Blacks more than any other team and I think we are right to think this. Recent rule changes do not favour route 1 teams like SA and England, the proof is there, though I do prefer the the current "wider" game and it's a better spectacle...My point about The Lions has nothing to do with this evaporating argument about who is best NH or SH, it's about how up here we are stuck in the past with an archaic set of national team damaging games by way of a Lions tour that was a junket for amateur players that has no place in the modern professional era in my opinion...mainly because I believe it introduces player elitism, disrupts the playing style, ethos and team spirit of our national teams all for a "disruptive" mish-mash 10 week get together which excludes up and coming players that could do with the experience SH players get in playing the Lions. In other words the SH players get more out of a Lions Tour than the excluded NH players. Not only this, I think The Lions if they do badly sends a psychological message that our national teams, who wrongly perceive that the Lions standard is higher, that if The Lions cannot beat the SH test sides they they are going to find it even harder

Posted 10:12 03rd May 2012

jamesliveinhope says...

can we also consider (on the subject of Barnes) what happens when refs do take the advice of their assistants. Similar editorial bemoaning their failure to apply the rules

Posted 13:02 02nd May 2012

jamesliveinhope says...

@melkdave spot on - the ref represents less than 2% of the people that can influence a the game on match day. Compared to about 95% being players, bench and coaching staff.

Speaking from and English perspective, the quality of spectacle (I avoid using the word rugby) improves dramatically come spring when the weather improves.

Didn't see the games at the weekend so difficult to comment specifically but Barnes isn't one known for being backwards in coming forward when it comes to penalising the breakdown (in fact, these boards are quite regularly full of criticism for his brandishing of cards)

At the end of the day, if referees could accurately penalize every incident of offside or off-feet, matches would never finish. The refs role is to materially judge an offence within the context of its impact and/or its intention, if teams are playing in a mudbath and the attacking scrum-half is dawdling up to the ruck or the forwards are spending time organising a pick and drive move, why penalise players for not rolling away.

Posted 11:14 02nd May 2012

Sasquatch says...

@The Claw:

Absolutely, plus a 3 week ban.

Posted 23:34 01st May 2012

melkdave says...

I dont think theres a big differance in quality between the NH and SH ,as has been mentioned With the exception of NZ conditions the game is played in are deifferent, in the north its usally cold and / or wet for long periods of the season .While in Australia and S.Afirica because of georagphy conditions are mure suited to fast running expansive games .This more than anything i think gives the impression of different styles /tatics ect.As its alot easier to move the ball at pace when your warm and dry than cold and dripping wet .Not that every S15 game is played in better conditions just alot more .As to the referees well yes the breakdown needs to be refereed the same in the north and south ,but i will say atm there seems to be more controversy and vitol on the forums cuased by the SH referees and their interpetations ala BL-JK -MJ and the one from the Brumbies -Blues game who ignored a knock-on,for longer amounts of time and more often Than ever caused by a NH refeerees.Perhaps they and not the NH are at fault .After all you can let things go to far ala BL in the RWC semi final in trying to have an exciting /intense game

Posted 15:48 01st May 2012

Sprogrugby says...

I love a bit of rucking and feel there is a certain feeling of justice in a player in an illegal position being encouraged out of the back of a ruck (not stamping or kicking). However to say this would help sort the tackle and provide cleaner quicker ball is a 'furphy'. There were many players including Andy Robinson and Neil Back who took great delight in deliberately putting themselves in that position, getting 7 bales kicked out of themselves but doing the job of slowing the ball. I don't think we should let the refs off the hook here - make them clean the tackle up. And I agree that SH refs get this happening far quicker than NH refs, agreeing with previous comments that if I wanted to introduce somebody to rugby union, I think a Super 15 game is more likely (not in all cases but most) to provide a better spectacle. Re all the comments on defence in the NH being more of a feature than SH, I find some of the South African teams defence extremely exciting (not including Butch James and his own tackling style).

Posted 02:41 01st May 2012