Cited: Andrew Hore
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New Zealand hooker Andrew Hore has been called "a disgrace" by Wales assistant coach Rob Howley after striking Bradley Davies in Saturday's Test in Cardiff.
The incident forced Davies to leave the field in the opening minutes of the match and has been widely condemned by fans and the media after video content of the incident circulated online.
Hore's blindside shot on the Cardiff second row has been cited, with the hearing on Wednesday.
"What Hore did has got no place on a rugby field, as far as I am concerned," said Howley.
"It was an absolute disgrace. He has been cited, and I am sure it won't be taken too lightly.
"Situations and incidents like that have no place on the rugby field, and it had a huge impact on the game.
"You don't traditionally think the All Blacks want to do things like that. They are a good enough team not to so we were very surprised by the actions of the player.
"Bradley has severe concussion and cannot play this weekend.
"It was pretty obvious that something untoward had happened.
"Whether the referee should be able to go to the TMO in those situations is something for the IRB to decide."
Comments
davodiablo says...
This is the same British media that fondly recall the Lions "99 call" every 4 years.
Posted 13:18 27th November 2012
norm says...
Legal clear out?
Bronco there are some seriously unobjevtive posts on here from both sides and as usual this has descended into puerile nonsense but you mate are talking out of your hole! Careful you don't sail of the edge of the earth you Pratt!
Posted 13:09 27th November 2012
Trader2 says...
After reading your post I went back and had a look frame by frame (as the judiciary will see it) and you are 100% correct, in fact from the front on view it looked quite innocuous, Hore's hand was palm out, there was no fist or swinging arm, I think Hore was guilty of going a little high and that¿s it. My initial view on Saturday was that it looked pretty bad from the behind shot but I think there was bugger all in it.
As you said @hayj05 it was the accidental knee that did the damage I cannot see how the forearm coming at the angle it did would have had any affect. The forearm was actually depowered on Davies shoulder before hitting the side of his head. Hore will still get suspended just to appease the usual suspects but I think he is being lambasted quite unfairly. Disappointed in myself for not looking at it a little closer at the time, I fell for the (Welsh) commentators indignation without too many questions and I think the Kiwis who have also got stuck into Hore should have another look at it as I did, it is no use asking our NH friends to do likewise, they have fallen for the propaganda like I initially did.
Hore has never been a thug and dare I say it he still isn't.
Posted 13:06 27th November 2012
Tony says...
Huw Richards anyone! What of Jim Mills?
Anyway Hore's AB career is over I suspect. 6 weeks my prediction
Philly damage was done when they hit the deck, not the swinging arm.
Posted 12:15 27th November 2012
tac18 says...
It was an ugly incident & Hore deserves what he will probably get. But for God's sake quit the rhetoric about the All Blacks somehow being the biggest thugs in the world. The reality is that individuals commit these acts and all international teams have them - where was the hysterical outcry from NH media in 2010 when Powell did exactly the same thing to McCaw (except from the front)? Greyling this year? Gougerie in RWC final 2011? Cooper 2011? Botha 2010? Hartley 2010? Tuqiri 2006? Matfield 2005? Shaw 2004? Pointless going on. Obviously there are always going to be hotheads doing dumb and dangerous things, but they are also going to be spread over all international sides. To all Lions supporters, most people in NZ including myself thought Umaga/Mealamu should have gone for a skate over BOD. Hore to get 8 weeks hopefully. Now can we all please magically become objective and condemn all thuggery regardless of nationality. Go ABs...
Posted 10:49 27th November 2012
OzinLondon says...
Trader...Spot on.
I'm not sure what we have been disagreeing about over the past week. Hore's act was out of order and he should be punished but I don't think it was his intention to knock his opponent out (although to suggest he was "provoked" is a bit much... are you saying anytime a player cheats he is "provoking" his opponments to commit foul play?).
My point from the outset has been that people can't have it both ways... Kiwis can't be up in arms and launch a campaign of abuse because a young player (in the spur of the moment) gives Richie McCaw a bit of a facial... and then the next second describe an AB player who stamps on a head or forearm smashes another player from behind as "clumsy" and accuse NH types of over-reacting.
Similarly, NH types should stop over-reacting to transgressions by SH players when they have not condemned their own players for the same type of offence.
The comments from some Kiwis on this site alone about Hore's incident have made me laugh when you can rest assured that most of them were right up for abusing and vilifying Cooper and Higginbotham over the past 18 months.
Unfortunately the disgrace that is the citing/judiciary system isn't helping.
Posted 10:17 27th November 2012
Euskadi says...
I am not trying to mitigate Hores' action, what he did was illegal I just cannot believe that he nor any other professional player would deliberately try to stiff arm/knock out/maim a fellow player particularly during the first minute of the match. Consider if Hore had have got him under the ribs and drove him into the ruck, would have the potential to seriously hurt Howley as well but there would not be the uproar that this has caused. It is not worth it at any stage during or after the match.
Hore should get 8 weeks, the maximum for this type of foul play. But owing to the medias coverage, the Thompson incident (lack of IMO) and subsequent appeal I would not be surprised if Hore gets a sanction from the IRBs own 'special book'.
Posted 09:45 27th November 2012
Euskadi says...
Think about this logically.
These guys are professionals, they know the consequences of their actions both on and off the field. Even those foul acts committed in the seemingly anonymous confines at the bottom of a ruck are eventually found via the myriad camera angles now available to us, think eye gouge McCaw world cup final etc. If they commit the crime 99% of the time there will be video evidence available to prosecute the offenders, whether the prosecution occurs is an entirely separate question.
Therefore I simply cannot believe that Hore, a senior All Black would deliberately try to take a player out of the game through foul play, its not worth it in any sense of the imagination. It was a red card offense and i'm sure will be treated as such in front of the citing commissioner.
Those who are also saying that the ref missed it, everyone missed it! Look at the players heading to that ruck where it occurred, not one player reacted to what Hore did, like the players Jouberts eyes were on the ball/ball carrier. If there is anyone to blame for missing it then it is the TJ on that side of the field, and less so the TJ on the other side of the field.
Heres what I think happened, thanks to the BBCs' wide angle, Howley runs interference (illegal) on Hore, changes direction twice to impede Hore (must maintain your line). Hore, high on the adrenalin that runs through you during the first minutes of a rugby match not to mention the Haka nor the emotions of the occasion and anthem decides, in a millisecond that he'll give Howley a good twack and tackle him into the ABs side of the ruck as a kind of payback for his interference.
At pace, trying to disguise his intentions Hore swings his arm too high and you know the rest of the story.
TBC
Posted 09:45 27th November 2012
mikeNZ1 says...
On another thread I said he was a disgrace & should never again be selected.
However now I've seen better youtube replays it's clear from the front on angle that it was just incredibly clumsy.
From behind it looks like a punch but from the front Hores arm goes over Davies shoulder in an effort to clear him out of the way & he catches him with his forearm.
The clear out itself is illegal but it's a regular unpunished occurrence in todays game & it just so happens that this one went terribly wrong.
Hore will rightly be banned but a national disgrace he is not.
To those of you from the NH that disagree - I note the deafening silence of your responses to the already mentioned Powell & Hartley incidents.
Posted 09:45 27th November 2012
Pembs says...
There are some pretty disgusting human beings mocking a man lying in hospital with severe concussion. Cretins like you give the rugby supporters a bad name. Real hard men hiding behind your keyboards.
Posted 09:44 27th November 2012
jonesy2 says...
trippa -- absolutely spot on.
hore a disgrace howley? no, he is a great hooker who has made a mistake in a sloppy attempt to clear out an offside opponent. howley, you and the UK media is a disgrace for dragging a guys name through the mud. a great player who has served his country and franchise with the utmost distinction for many many years. why dont the UK media just worry about their job which at the moment should be to comment on how abysmally poor euro rugby is (bar france and italy)
Posted 09:44 27th November 2012
Golden_statenba says...
@SilverSurfer
Great find!
Not saying that what Hore did was a good thing but this puts things into perspective.
Posted 09:01 27th November 2012
geth13 says...
I don't think losing bradley davies was a massive loss, but wales didnt have another recognised second row in the squad so it didnt help the balance of the pack.
imo what did effect the game was wales lost a player(2 at the same time with jarvis injury) which weakened the bench, and the all blacks should of been down to 14 men which would of made a closer game, all blacks still would of won probably.
the bitterness is due to no penalty for wales or card for hore but the refs cant see everything. life goes on, im sure davies is over it now. but he may not be over the headache!!
Posted 08:48 27th November 2012
jamesliveinhope says...
Firstly can we stop with the "no worse than ...." remarks. If the lawmakers have failed to act properly in the past (and it would appear that they are acknowledging the weakness of their system) it doesn't mean that Hore's act was any more justified, it simply means that a weak disciplinary system creates an environment for this kind of thuggery. We shouldn't also forget Davies picked up a ban for a bit of nasty play earlier in the season so I tend to feel that sometimes these incidents, whilst not excusable, are a culmination of other unseen stuff.
I have just looked at the Powell incident, Powell is particularly fond of the swinging arm (recently been cited in the Premiership for similar) but the incident is different in that (a) McCaw was facing the player and moving at pace and (b) an inch lower and the tackle would have probably been seen as legitimate. On the same video (rugby dump) they showed a similar tackle by Carter (I think) on the Welsh 20 (poor focus couldn't see who) in the same game.
Posted 08:45 27th November 2012
ManWarrior says...
As an avid Springbok supporter, I must say that the All Blacks (bar Richie MaCaw) has never been a team of fowl or "disgracefull" play. I think the Welsh might be blowing this out of proportion. What Hore did is stupid and let's treat it as such, an isolated act of stupidity. After all, he is a hooker and maybe he got some tips from our beloved Bakkies Both...LOL! Go Bokke!!!
Posted 08:33 27th November 2012
nzmaoriboy says...
Just to satisfy my curiosity I have checked Powell's close line on you-tube after reading many peoples post's! It was pretty Awesome he he & at full tilt too..Definitely think Hore's was worse due to the blind-side nature of it all. However can we say the same about the coverage?? I cant believe my eyes when you read the Uk headlines..1 persons stupid act..Is now 'CAST" as being the "MODUS-OPERENDA" of the All Black game and legacy (ITS CRAZY)! It seems The old-boys network in the NORTHERN MEDIA are finally unleashing years of pent up anger & abuse..& are pretty much savaging the AB brand! its sad..They have probably given the JADED AB's the added motivation to win well this weekend.Whats the best way to destroy a teams legacy? To deny it existed despite all evidence or to debunk & slander it?? what say you
Posted 08:24 27th November 2012
Bronco says...
@Kent, I assume you have similar vitriol reserved for Davies' epically failed attempt at being clever and running into Hore's way.
He tried to be smart and came out on the wrong end - I didn't see anything wrong with the play on first watch, or second, or third. It wasn't till it was slowed right down that it looked like anything untoward (other than Davies' illegal attempt to interrupt) was going on. Hore will get some sort of penalty (no doubt an inflated one), but it is based far more on the result of his action than the action itself.
What 'O'Driscoll tackle' btw?
You surely don't mean the legal clear out that occurred on one BOD in the last NZ Lions series (which was what, 50 years ago?), another situation in which the cheap seats in the NH got their knickers in a knot over the result (not the action). Funnily enough, this was another case of a player (BOD) trying to be clever, (sticking his foot around the side of a ruck rather than keeping good body position). The result being that when the legal clear out came through, he went up instead of back. The rest is history. BOD tried to be a smart alec, and, like Davies, he came out on the wrong end. Zero sympathy for him.
Posted 07:53 27th November 2012
hayj05 says...
Very amusing reading all the All Black hate from people straying from the fact that it was purely an individual act.
Yes the AB's don't have a clean history but neither do any of the other historical Rugby nations. It's a physical game & there are humans playing it, sometimes emotions get out of hand & sometimes players characterise their individual morals in a physical manner.
"Some" of the reaction & comments really just accentuates my thought that the double standards given to the AB's are not from the refs or the IRB, but are in fact from opposing fans & media that can't handle their consistent success.
I'm certainly not going to hang around on PR when the AB's go through an inevitable bad run of form in the future. It'll be like a school of piranhas feeding to the bone.
Peace.
Posted 07:49 27th November 2012
Melkiwi says...
So when SH teams do it, it's a thug act, but when the NH do it it's because the opposition deserve it (macaw on Powell). What the WRFU are doing is genius because no one is talking about how Wales have lost 6 in a row and come the weekend 7. NH will try anything to distract their fans from the terrible form of the home nations
Posted 07:17 27th November 2012
hellovanite says...
Jash, you're a total dickhead!
Posted 06:55 27th November 2012