APV1 says...

What do you think of this then, chaps? Perhaps SBW only publicised his donation to raise awareness of the plight of Christchurch... I have no idea what his motivation was, but maybe he thought that I can use my position as a well-known sportsman for good and raise the profile of the tragedy and, therefore, help raise even more than my personal donation. Much like sports- and other well-known people becoming Charity Patrons (Sir Ian "Beefy" Botham is a Patron of Help for Heroes, for example)...

Posted 17:54 16th July 2012

ruckingkiwi says...

kitch, no need for insults.

There are loads of 1, 2, 3 test All Blacks who get the jersey and then choose to leave. Similarly, there have been loads of guys who have been picked before they have proved themselves.. this is called a bolter, and Sonny was not a bolter and he certainly didn't leave after a couple tests.

That's not a humble back down on Richie and the boys, that's explaining what I wrote in a simple way so you'd understand it. And I back that up, I haven't seen Richie and boys donating 100K, that's not to say they haven't contributed.. but $100K, please show me where?

I realise your grasp of the English language is minimal so I will try and explain myself more clearly in future..

"yes 17 tests but should be caps bc he hasnt played 17",

What does that mean errr?

Anyway, Sonny didn't play the final because Nonu was the better option, I cannot see anywhere on this thread where anyone has said any different. He still gets the winners medal though, no different to our man Dan Carter who didn't play from the pool games on.

The debate here is not how awesome he is, it's about the fact that other people have issue with him choosing to do with his life as he chooses.

And back to LOOK AT ME... so are you saying that anyone who makes a public donation is showing a lack of humility and grace? I think quite the opposite.

Some people are actually genuine despite what you choose to believe. Like I questioned earlier and I now pass to you.. can you name anyone who has met or knows the guy who has a bad experience with him?

Even Thorburn says very nice things about him .

Posted 02:04 16th July 2012

Euskadi says...

Kitch, I didn't call anyone stupid now did I? There's a big difference between calling someone stupid and me telling people to get a reality check. Simplistic statements from posters about Sonny Bill being only interested in the money need to develop more evidence as to his motivation when the facts show that money motivation is untrue. How would you explain SBW leaving a $2m/annual contract with Toulon to come to NZ and earn a quarter of that? That cant be about the money then can it? SBW stated when he announced his move to NZ that to play for the All Blacks was a dream of his and thats why he came to NZ, to try and make the team, he did and therefore achieved his goal. Perhaps being a 'great' All Black was not his goal. But he's played 17 tests was MOM in two (Scotland and Ireland) won a WC so he's achieved more than most. Greatness is subjective anyway, a label applied by others. IMO earning a solitary cap would solidify my position as an All Black for the rest of my life, would I be less of an All Black than others? No, only in a non All Blacks eyes and in the end their opinions would be valid but ultimately shallow as they have not ever been All Blacks.

I know two All Blacks in the current squad personally, one is/was contemplating going overseas but in the end stayed to have another crack at playing test matches. His motivation is to prove to himself (no one else) that he is worthy of playing test match rugby, his motivation is internal and perhaps selfish, but most of these pro sportspeople are just that...selfish. They strive to be the best they can be and when they are satisfied that they achieve that, they focus on other goals.

This is professionalism, its their job and like most working folk they are in it for the money. Sure there are regular (non profesional athletes) people who dont work just for the money but they are few and very far between.

Posted 13:49 13th July 2012

kitch says...

Brad and Jerome have since gone overseas but only after they had consistently proven themselves as the best in the world. Anyone can be good for a couple of games but its another story to be good year in year out. They both achieved the highest award in rugby (world cup) by actually starting and playing in the final!! You could say that they were at their peak

Posted 11:33 13th July 2012

Euskadi says...

Kiwiingermany...I hope you are not calling me stupid for airing my opinion? If you are calling me stupid I am just across the border in Denmark and would be very happy to make the tour to Germany and discuss my opinion with you face to face.

Posted 10:29 13th July 2012

ruckingkiwi says...

"mumma!..or worse!".. ? Don't start on his mother now please :)

Actually those aren't "rash generalisations", they are personal experiences, if you read my comments again you'll note the " I " , not " we ", I have only spoken for myself, not for anyone else.

I know English is a confusing language so I will forgive you :)

Kiwiingermany, this "greatest tradition in rugby and one of the greatest traditions in any sport" thing is merely an opinion. Don't get me wrong, I'm a passionate Kiwi and AB fan but some people just don't see things the way you do, there is more to life than the All Blacks and "tradition". . and I'm yet to see where and how Sonny has disrespected any tradition, he was selected, played and then decided to leave. I could name a lot of people who have done far less to earn a jersey and who have left much quicker than 17 tests, people just jump on the wagon because of who it is.

Posted 20:28 12th July 2012

Kiwiingermany says...

@ rucking kiwi Am not sure what "this tradition thing" is. Probably just bad English. Nevertheless the All Black jersey represents the greatest tradition in rugby and one of the greatest traditions in any sport. Most All Blacks are well aware of that. So-called "SBW" is not. Some money-makers may have told him about it. I am not sad to see him go as Dan Carter said for reasons of diplomacy. I would never have missed him if he had never been there. The outcome of no game would have been different if he hadn't been there. He is, considering character and ability, much better suited to rugby league.

Posted 12:19 12th July 2012

kitch says...

man rucking kiwi youre starting to sound like his mumma!..or worse!

rash generalisation 1

" i dont know of anyone involved in rugby at any level who has a bad word to say about him"..assuming that all involved in rugby love him

rash generalisation 2

"i havent seen ritchie and the boys donating".. assuming that they havent or no one else for that matter has just bc YOU havent seen them do it!!.. oh hang on you changed youre mind on that...you must be his mumma!

and do tell "what does qualify someone to believe they know better" lol.. ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black!!

Posted 11:13 12th July 2012

ruckingkiwi says...

Haha Peter Williams, is that the part-time weather man on TV1?

You do realise it's Peter Williams and his media chums who have created the "circus" you speak of?

I'd be interested in you pointing out my "rash generalisations"!

Personal experiences are not rash generalisations.

It certainly wasn't me who threw out terms such as "best in world" or "legend", which you've twisted the argument towards with your comparison to Thorn. Who mentioned Thorn? Of course Thorn's a legend!

Anyway, let's get back to the "LOOK AT ME" thing, which is why you initially chipped into this conversation - so please explain why you choose to attack someone for doing a good deed?

Is it because you cannot handle that someone you know nothing about has decided to turn down the precious black jersey to chase a different dream?

Is it because he has the talent to try his hands at various disciplines and has achieved remarkably well in each?

Is it because you're jealous?

I cannot see how he has disrespected the "honour and privelege" of being an AB. Unfortunate for us but not everyone has the dream of being an AB legend.

I'm not sure why so-called fans think their opinion on how a player, or person for that matter, should live their life or assume their career, chase their dreams and which opportunites they should take is right. What qualifies someone to believe they know better?

Posted 21:38 11th July 2012

kitch says...

@ruckingkiwi.. again bc YOU "dont know anyone involved in rugby who doesnt rate the guy" then geeze it must be true!! .. alot of rash generalisations makes me wonder if you even follow the game! Try Peter thorburn a very well respected old rugby head who sees potential in sbw but doesnt really rate him as a starting 80min AB!..bench warmer at best at this stage of his career. Peter williams, doesnt rate sbw. It is a bit naive of you to think any player is going to come out and bag sbw !

Well said @ kiwiingermany..All sbw has brought to rugby is a circus, and to me , a disregard for the honour and privelege of being an AB. I felt the same when big Brad first turned his back on the ABs.. but then he came back applied himself and became a truely great legend of the game. What has sbw done in rugby!.. one could argue he didnt win a world cup bc he didnt even play in the final and only played 5 min in the semi and that was bc In the tri nations, facing decent opposition, he was seriously undone and found wanting in all aspects of the game. So he scored 2 tries against ireland, and i must admit it was good to see him hitting the line at pace rather than hesitating while looking for the offload, but lets not forget it was Cruden who set both those tries up! Offloading is nothing new to rugby either.. some people go on so much about sbw doing what no one else can do, it makes me wonder what theyve been watching or sniffing! Also the chiefs have made it to the finals before without sbw, and this year they have a decent half pairing and coaches thats added a new dimension to their rugby.. i would rate a fit Kahui before sbw anyday! And please dont mention his boxing..what a complete JOKE!

as said before.. potential?-definitetly... the best theres been?-definitely not... best in world?-definitely not

Posted 12:23 11th July 2012