Set to leave the Lions den?: Josh Strauss
This week we will mostly be concerning ourselves with rumours, assertions, insinuations and accusations, observations and praise...
Bizarre goings-on in the South African media this week, with widespread reports of Lions captain and dynamo back row Josh Strauss opting to join none other than the Crusaders for next year's Super Rugby tournament (that's the one the Lions have been unfairly shovelled out of by the way).
The rumour, sparked as many credible and well-checked media stories these days are: via Twitter, proved untrue, but did have the side effect of letting us all know that wherever Strauss is next year, it's unlikely to be at Ellis Park after he confirmed that his agent is looking around at overseas opportunities.
The Strauss move was also rumoured to be a loan for a year (presumably up to the point when the Lions play the Kings and give them what for), while Elton Jantjes is also set to be loaned out to another franchise as he has a clause in his contract saying that if the Lions lose Super Rugby, Jantjes can move on.
Indeed, the Lions might have to resort to that kind of creative thinking and loan out a whole host of players. Having already lost the services of four key forward personnel and looking certain to lose Strauss, all on the back of a home defeat to the Griquas, the ship is looking decidedly unsteady in the choppy waters of SA Rugby.
Would year-long loan deals, with the players coming together for a couple of weeks before the play-off against the Kings, not be a good solution for the Lions?
Hopefully they can create something though. It would be a desperate shame to lose them from the face of SA Rugby for the longer term.
Remember the English and French clubs' reasoning for not being happy with the Heineken Cup because the Celtic teams could qualify with relative ease from the Pro12 while they had to fight tooth and nail through the arduous Premiership and Top 14?
Remember what they said about the Celtic teams being able to rest players on a regular basis, thus leaving the teams not only fresher for the Heineken Cup but also looking fresher for the Six Nations?
Well, take a look at the Pro12 this weekend. Leinster, shorn of several internationals on mandatory rest periods, were annihilated by the Scarlets. The Ospreys crumbled in Treviso, also lacking several key players.
Yet under the current qualification rules being suggested by ERC, it is infeasible to think either of these teams will not be right up there, both when it comes to challenging for the Pro12 title and especially in qualification for the Heineken Cup. A couple of domestic defeats actually don't matter.
Meanwhile, the French have been bashing lumps out of each other with full strength teams for three weeks now, while the Premiership kicked off (in style, we might add) with a reasonably full complement of internationals on show.
You see, defeats in these two leagues could see you in quite a lot of trouble when attempting to qualify for the Heineken Cup, especially with the number of teams set to be cut to 20. Finishing in the top four or five in either league is no mean feat and requires a lot more effort than finishing in the top eight of the Pro12 does.
The English and French have a point - this time ERC need to listen and think.
In France, it seems the pressure of reaching the heady goals being set is beginning to fizz in boardrooms around the country, with a couple of Presidents opening fire on the referees of games their teams lost with typical panache.
Agen's president Alain Tignaud asked that Agen be 'refereed like everyone else', adding he wanted his team to be relegated because they were 'not good enough, rather than because of injustice' (so you're confident of staying up Mr. Tignaud?)
A little more high-charged than that was Racing Metro President Jacky Lorenzetti's furious insinuation that Toulon's head coach Bernard Laporte entered the dressing room of referee Monsieur Raynal during the half-time of Toulon's 23-21 win over Racing (a match which Toulon claimed with a late penalty). Laporte claimed to be entering to ask about an alleged stamp by Dimitri Szarzewski on Chris Masoe.
Anyway, conspicuous by his absence is Toulon's own inimitable mouthpiece Mourad Boujellal. Strange... so where are Toulon these days? Ahh - of course. Sitting pretty at the top with three wins out of three. Referees are only bad when you lose. They're the easiest to blame for defeats; ironically, they're the ones you can control the least.
There's a lot of sour grapes in France at the moment, there are also still a lot of matches being decided on penalties and much indiscipline, fighting and cards.
There's no real solution other than to look at the referees and see if they really are that awful; it's worth bearing in mind, France is perhaps the toughest place in the world to referee so slack is the discipline at times. But it would be nice to see a measure of censure applied to the loudmouths on occasion.
That Australian rugby is in a bit of a rut at the moment is obvious, but how deep is becoming more and more evident.
It seems that the Rugby News publication, a weekly paper devoted to all goings-on in sub-franchise rugby is to be no more after this season, and it seems that club rugby is no longer worthy of domestic TV coverage after this year either.
This would be less newsworthy in other countries - akin to the loss of a couple of digits more than a limb - but Australia has no provincial rugby to back up the Super franchises as in South Africa or New Zealand. The downgrading of club rugby that these cuts afford is a hammer blow to the game, a real marginalisation in a country where rugby ranks a distant fourth behind rugby league, AFL and cricket.
We can only hope that something is done to help regenerate this. Without a thriving club game - including good coverage and information flow - underpinning the franchises, Australian rugby will be operating on decidedly shaky foundations and the rut they are currently in will become a lot deeper.
Finally, on a more cheery note, do not delay. Get to an internet connection, trawl the depths of the ether, and try to pick up a full-length replay of this weekend's Taranaki-Tasman Ranfurly Shield challenge/ITM Cup match.
Pace, skill, endeavour, physicality, discipline, honesty, 89 points and a stadium full of raucous fans were on offer, with barely a trace of referee sledging, fighting, indulgent squad rotation or unwelcome politics to be seen. All this between two of the country's less-decorated provinces as well.
It's taken some time to get right, but New Zealand, pioneers of a better game on the pitch for a while now, seem to be getting the administration of the game right in challenging times as well. It's creating a national rugby atmosphere where people seem happy to play and officiate, rather than scared to lose or get things wrong. It can be done.
Loose pass compiled by Richard Anderson
Comments
7ton says...
Kybone
I am not anti English or French and nor am I one eyed or deluded. Nor do all the teams in the pro 12 automatically qualify.
The pro12 teams may well indeed have an easier league but as I have said I am sure the 4 countries involved would like to have a league like the AP and T14. That can't be changed overnight.
So long as we have a European cup that includes all the 6nations then teams that finish 7th in the AP or T14 wont qualify except in the case where one of them win the HC or Amlin like what has happened with France this year who I believe have 7 teams invoved
The fact is England and France have a very large player base which is also a advantage but the downside being too many clubs in the AP and T14 for all to qualify.
Now I can certainly understand why the English and French clubs do not want to reduce the amount or change their leagues and that is fair enough but you can't have your cake and eat it. You have to take the pros with the cons.
Posted 11:43 10th September 2012
kybone says...
7ton and Monkeyboy- i cant believe that you dont see the flaw when clubs like Gloucester, Bath, Perpignan, and Biarritz may not qualify for the HC because they finished 7th in a tough league yet Zebre or Edinburgh can arse abour all season finish bottom and second bottom of the pro 12 and still qualify. Its quite obviously, to anyone who isn't completely anti-english or french, unfair. All we're asking is that the 3 major leagues in europe be treated the same, ratherthan 2 of them have to qualify and the other have all the teams qualify automatically. Anyone who denies that the pro12 teams have an advantage when we've already seen the irish teams resting all the top players in the first coupleof games of the season, is completely one eyed and deluded.
Posted 01:16 09th September 2012
7ton says...
APV1
Yes us 2 may well see the HC as a different competition but your description as to how I see it is very misleading as it does not describe it properly
I see the development of rugby in countries like Italy as a good side product of the HC. However I see the main Idea of the European cup is to be a competition between the TOP TEAMS FROM EACH INDIVIDUAL COUNTRY in the 6n (if other Euro countries improve then there would be a case for them to have a team included). Wheras your idea seems to be it should be just the top teams regardless of any country and even to the extent that at times there could only be 2 countries in it.
To me that goes totally against the meaning of the term "European cup" and is rather like that so called "world series" in America where it is only contested by U.S teams and maybe Canadian I am not to sure.
I think the HC is a great comp. with all the different cultures and it is good for fans to travel to different countries to support their clubs other than just their country.
Okay some teams perhaps like Zebre are going to be whipping boys and there will be better teams from other countries who miss out but there are simply too many clubs in Europe for all to be included.
In reality the comp. could be restricted to just 12 teams with just the top 2 from each country but the larger player base in England and France is recognised which is why these 2 countries have more teams guaranteed a place than the others.
Besides I'm sure the pro12 countries would love to have the player base and individual leagues like the AP and T14
Posted 23:39 05th September 2012
Monkeyboy says...
@APV1 Deal.
Posted 15:20 05th September 2012
APV1 says...
@ HenryFitz & Monkeyboy - I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Posted 14:13 05th September 2012
Monkeyboy says...
Here's the position as I see it, others may disagree: The SHs Super Rugby tournaments are widely credited as driving up their standards, hence their general dominance in international rugby. Now that the Pro12 is aping it and looks to be having a similar effect the Englush & French want to neuter it somehow. The arguments over attendances being driven up are somewhat baseless as the Irish provinces do a roaring trade. For the other Pro12 nations there are different factors affecting attendances, which include for example building a legacy/emotional ties for relatively new teams. I believe it's a similar factor that is preventing the English clubs from reforming and losing that heritage, to start from scratch. We in Wales went through that pain and are now seeing the benefits.
Posted 12:52 05th September 2012
HenryFitz says...
APV1,
"I think the fundemental difference is that we see the HC as a different competition. I view it as the pinacle of European club rugby, where the best clubs in Europe battle for the title."
No you don't. If you did, you would want the best teams to play their best players at all times. Half the French contingent already put out second teams away from home, and the proposed changes would result in some Rabo 12 teams putting out second teams when they're out of the competition - so as to concentrate on gaining a top 6 finish and the financial rewards that brings. Even some of the English sides have been doing that recently. Your 'hope' is for a competition with fewer games, most of which will be of lower quality. That doesn't sound like the pinnacle of European competition to me. It sounds like a money-spinning exhibition, and an afterthought to the various leagues.
No matter how you dress up your parochial concerns - as a patronising argument that the Rabo should become more competitive, as a plea for fairness, or as a contradictory assertion that fewer teams will increase the appeal of the competition - at bottom this is a couple of lobby-groups clamouring for more revenue. Or, if the arguments are to be taken at face-value, it is a cowardly appeal for opponents to be weakened or handicapped because they enjoy a perceived advantage, all the while ignoring any of the other, supposedly natural advantages enjoyed by rich clubs in England and France. It's the Tonya Harding school of equalisation - if you can't compete, break the other girl's legs.
Posted 11:56 05th September 2012
APV1 says...
@ leinsterblue - by making the Pro12 a meaningful competition, there would be greater attendance and, therefore, greater revenue. Those clubs who miss out on the HC have the opportunity to compete in the Amlin too, so there's another source of revenue.
@ Monkeyboy - that wasn't the AP, that was the RFU. And we know what a shower they've proved to be recently. Although I accept that SARU is giving us a good run for our money, I'm still of the opinion that (at least whilst Teflon Andrews is still there), the RFU is still one of the least competent Unions around.
@ 7ton - I think the fundemental difference is that we see the HC as a different competition. I view it as the pinacle of European club rugby, where the best clubs in Europe battle for the title. I see the Amlin as the developmental competition (and the LV= too). Where-as you see the HC as part of the development of European rugby. Until that concept can be agreed on, we're not going to agree on the other aspects.
The AP teams do rest and rotate their players, if possible (LV= Cup, for example), but we can't for the Amlin, AP or HC, as there are consequences. There are no consequences in the Pro12, hence the farce of Edinburgh last season.
@ new_j4a - unlike the Saffas, we have a combination of brains and brawn! ;-)
Posted 10:52 05th September 2012
new_j4a says...
If only passion and the quality of debate could be traded in for skill on the rugby field, there would be a couple of NH teams in the top three?
Posted 06:57 05th September 2012
AWEBLAX says...
Thanks Ferdie just watched your download AWESUM agree Bakers try my pick 2, wouldn't the Aussies love some of these players right now.....
Posted 06:46 05th September 2012
7ton says...
APV1
re your reply that the schedule isn't too busy
If that is the case then surely with a bit of careful thought and noos the AP teams should be able to rotate and rest their players to a certain degree. It may well mean taking a risk but that may pay of in the long term.
Posted 22:05 04th September 2012
7ton says...
APV1 says " I have yet to read a sensible and reasoned argument for the manner in which the Zebras qualify. It's based on quotas, not merit and that's unfair to those who miss out."
You have answered the question yourself here as It is based on quotas with the intention being to have a good representation from all the countries in the 6N and hence call it the European cup. Where you have a cup representing a geographical area it is logical to have quotas and that seems like a sensible and reasoned argument to me.
Further it is not just the case of " quotas and not merit" as you say, as the English and French clubs do have a higher quota than the others as it is considered that on "merit" they should have.
Of course we could argue that Italy should only have one team involved but I suppose the idea is to try to increase the presence of the game there and it seems rather mean and against the spirit of rugby for you to begrudge that and put so much emphasis on Zebre
Reducing the quota of Italy and perhaps Scotland wouldn't make qualifying harder for the Irish and Welsh clubs so we could say that the Quotas for Ireland and Wales should be reduced to. However they can well argue that they do not have a tougher league that they can play in and that their clubs can hold their own against the French and English ones. Therefore if the Quotas are reduced for the Irish and Welsh then how about reducing them for the English and French as well and then have a play of between the clubs that have just missed out on their countries quota which would then perhaps move things a bit more to the qualifying by merit side of things.
Posted 21:30 04th September 2012
Monkeyboy says...
If the AP ain't broke, why all the obstacles placed in the way of Championship clubs being promoted? It's almost ring-fencing by stealth, as it's no secret that most AP clubs prefer that option. So when relegation disappears from the AP will they listen to other countries moaning it's too easy to coast?
Ultimately if we follow the reasoning of the AP and T14, then at some point the RFU & FFR will complain that there's no relegation from the Super15, so SH players are more rested allowing them to do better at the RWC.
If its the lower Scots & Italian teams that are causing consternation then why aren't the calls for them to play-off for the right to be in the HC rather than target the Irish & Welsh?
Posted 20:17 04th September 2012
leinsterblue says...
what seems to get lost in all this is that the Rabo represents a collection of countries - so although it is most definitely a league, from a geography perspective it is far more reprsentative than the AP and Top 14...if you look at the make up of the HC, then dominant countries represented are still England and France...if you cut the representation from the Rabo, then England and France still maintain dominance, while Ireland, Italy, Scotland and Wales suffer...and based on form over the last few years, Rabo would be repersented by Ulster, Munster, Leinster and one of Ospreys / Edinburgh / Scarlets - not a scenario that I would particularly enjoy...
so, all that happens is that some countries, Italy as an example, lose vital HC revenues and therefore the games suffers...
Posted 18:01 04th September 2012
APV1 says...
@ Monkeyboy - the AP isn't at risk. Yet. There have been suggestions that we (not me and you, obviously!) alter the format and / or structure, rather than altering the HC. My point was that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. England and France believe that the HC qualification is broke (and, as such, weakens the Pro12), so needs fixing.
@ HenryFitz - it's not about syphoning off the money for the Fench and English teams - we don't need it as much as you. It's about the qualification criteria for the HC. I have yet to read a sensible and reasoned argument for the manner in which the Zebras qualify. It's based on quotas, not merit and that's unfair to those who miss out.
"...the English clubs are struggling with bad business models and really could do with more cash." I'm not going to say that most clubs wouldn't appreciate some extra cash, but compared to the Irish, Scot, Welsh and Italian teams, we're doing ok. The AP provides approx. 80% of the revenue, so walking away from the HC will damage us a lot less than it will the "Celts".
The status-quo means that the Pro12 remains irrelevant and we will continue to see teams "do an Edinburgh". How can that help the other 11 teams in the league, if they're demonstrably not even bothering? By making the Pro12 a competative league, the games will be harder-fought and actually mean something. That, in itself, will improve the quality of rugby. A meaningful competition will attract players who otherwise might be considering France, England or further afield. Look at Gatland's comments about Lions' selection. He's off to France to have a chat with players and coaches about availability. If they hadn't been lured away, then there'd be issue there.
I know it's a financial decision too, but a competitive league will make more money on the gate, by attracting more supporters. This in turn will give the clubs more spending power.
Posted 15:44 04th September 2012
lyndonmac says...
Glad to see the comments about the Tasman shield challenge against Taranaki. One of the best games I've seen in yonks. Tasman turned down 2 easily kickable penalties late in the game in a gutsy effort to take the shield. Watch that game to appreciate the speed of the game, the skills and fitness of second-tier kiwi players, and more important the passion of the provincial crowds.
A Cantabrian born and bred but now exiled in Perth and a member of the Western Force here, it breaks my heart to see our Super Rugby team perform often at a skill-level no better than club rugby in Christchurch. You always want your country of birth to be world champions, but it would be great to have that fierce rivalry with Australia back firing again!
As for Steve Hansen being a better coach than Robbie Deans --- maybe the silliest comment I've seen here for a while. Only 2 Wallabies would make even the All Black bench at present --- Robbie not only doesn't have the cattle, he hardly has any calves.
Posted 15:17 04th September 2012
HenryFitz says...
APV1,
It's not about Capitalism Vs Socialism, it's about defining what the mooted changes are designed to achieve. They are intended to transfe prize, tv and sponsorship money from the Celtic and Italian unions to French and English clubs. That is their sole purpose. Sure, there are a number of useful idiots screaming for fairness for the poor, bedraggled millionaires supporting English and French club rugby, but they're as tiresome as they are irrelevant. This is an argument about money. The French clubs don't care (as they've demonstrated), but they'd like more money if it's on offer, while the English clubs are struggling with bad business models and really could do with more cash. That's the heart of it.
The proposed changes won't make the competition fairer, better or more representative. They won't expand its horizons or reflect the relative quality of the nations involved. They will turn the European Cup into the Anglo-French cup plus 6 lucky invitees, and they will put more dosh in the pockets of the elite clubs in France and England. They will secure the hegemony of the already rich clubs and probably threaten the ruination of some of the poor ones. That is what they will achieve.
By all means, cavil away about fairness and rest periods if it makes you happy, but you should know that no-one negotiating for PRL and LNR really cares about those things.
Posted 14:35 04th September 2012
Monkeyboy says...
@APV1 I can talk for hours on the pros and cons of both capitalism & socialism, but I'd bore everyone to death. I'm sticking to good old fashioned rugby values of accepting everyone's differences.
Posted 14:29 04th September 2012
Monkeyboy says...
@APV1 My pleasure. I love a good old fashioned debate. To renew hostilities: how is the AP at risk from the Pro12 at present?
Posted 14:06 04th September 2012
APV1 says...
@ Monkeyboy - if we're not careful this debate could stray into the merits of Capitalism vs Socialism and then where would we be..?!
Posted 13:15 04th September 2012