Don't mention the All Blacks in Dublin any time soon
This week we will mostly be concerning ourselves with the Irish (on a number of issues), a legend and an appalling attempt at fraud...
So: Ireland. It's been a storm this week over all sorts of things, seemingly with the end result that by the time the green front arrived in Hamilton on Saturday it had blown itself out. Let's see what's been going on...
First up, there was the conflict over the refereeing of last week's Test - admittedly hardly fuelled by the players. There was Irish Times columnist Liam Toland, a former Leinster player, writing lucidly over what he saw as inconsistencies in Nigel Owens' interpretations during the second Test.
Owens took considerable umbrage to this, replying on Twitter (among other replies): ""if asked for confirmation on about 5 of the points he made, he wd have the correct answer but then wouldnt have an article wd he?"
And there, you'd think, the debate would lie. And you'd be wrong.
Toland's response ran thus: "I am very disappointed in being accused of bias...The laws are open to interpretation and that is the way the assessors sitting in the stands will see it. I am not accusing him of perverting the outcome of the match."
And so the long day wore on. But we here found ourselves falling on the side of Owens on this one... Toland not being biased? He's an Irishman, writing for an Irish paper with a pro-Irish agenda. It's his job to be biased and find in favour of Ireland. And if he's not accusing him of perverting the outcome of the match, why is he writing the article about tight marginal calls in a match decided on the last kick..? Mister Toland, me thinks thou dost protest too much...
Then came coach Les Kiss on drop goals. "If you go for a drop goal and miss then why should you get the ball back from a missed kick?" he asked. "That shouldn't have been their advantage. They went through it and missed it as we were good enough to stop it."
Fair enough... but Kiss is talking from the point of view of a country that has historically made a speciality of winning from late drop goals and indeed has benefitted down the years from precisely the charge-down law that this time proved critical in their undoing. Wasn't it just a bit of what goes around comes around...?
The Irish have legitimate grounds for anger over the yellow card shown to Rob Kearney on Saturday, a decision rightly labelled 'ridiculous' by both he and Brian O'Driscoll at the time. But do the Kiwis have legitimate grounds for anger over the lack of a card in the second Test as well? Take a look at this videobefore you answer - and yes, we are taking on board that this is a Kiwi journalist on a pro-Kiwi agenda...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS_Qi586rtE&feature=plcp
Despite Ronan O'Gara's denial, Steve Hansen looks to have been spot on when he described Ireland as reaching their tour peak in the second Test. Fortunately for us all, the wars of words reached their peak just after it as well - we doubt you'll find any Irishman willing to talk rugby for a couple of weeks after the third.
Back to referees and a much more heart-warming story than nit-picking twitter exchanges came this week at the IRB Junior World Championship, where Paul Dobson was presented with a lifetime achievement award by the IRB.
Dobson officiated in his first match in 1955 as a student in Pietermaritzburg, going on to referee more than 40 first-class matches in Western Province.
One of Dobson's lasting legacies was his drive to unify the two different Referees' Societies in South Africa, representing the then different Unions. By the end of 1991, Dobson had successfully navigated the merger and the referees were the first Rugby body to achieve this, a year ahead of the Unions becoming joined.
Another is Dobson's contribution in mentoring such refereeing luminaries as Andre Watson - for whom he also wrote a biography - and Jonathan Kaplan.
"It's always nice when your own people recognise you," said Dobson after receiving the Award.
"But they didn't have to do it. Danie Craven said, 'If you love something you never have to make sacrifices', so I've never made sacrifices or felt I was serving. I loved doing it. I loved being with referees, I loved the whole business of refereeing and I've been one since 1968.
"It's the friendship of it, being part of Rugby football in a very special way. I've met marvellous people from all over the world and that's been great. I've enjoyed it enormously."
It's a merited award for a fantastic fellow. Most top-level officials and players will have come across him at one time or another, all who have will be better off for the experience.
Poor old SARU don't half get it from all angles. This week, on top of the criticism of the national team and ongoing unrest over the Southern Kings fiasco, yet another fraudster has been using the SARU name (and email domain) to rip people off.
Still, you'd have to wonder at the mentality of anybody who did fall for this particular mail...
"The South African Springboks has made considerable progress and improvement, and we would have not been able to achieve this great heights without the help and support of our fans and supporters.
"We have therefore decided to give back to our fans and supporters by introducing: GET 130% - 150% RETURN IN 5 DAYS INVESTMENT."
Right.... yeah.... delete
Loose Pass compiled by Richard Anderson
Comments
bigb6969 says...
Kearney was not a yellow, but two yellows should have been given again Ireland in first test. Line broken, try scoring opportunities, and players were held back.
We had a penalty but it was blatant ignoring of the rules in not issuing a pair of yellows. The first test could have blown out to 60 as well
Posted 10:37 27th June 2012
APV1 says...
Anyone seen any posts from gazzabok recently? I'd like to know if he's paid up, or whether he's a charity-cheating scumbag...
"gazzabok says...
The English are delusional. That was't a competition once the Boks settled into the game.
Boks will win by 20+ tomorrow. If not, note this comment and I will donate 10 quid to Wooden Spoon.
Posted 13:12 15th June 2012"
I'm going to keep harassing the threads until they pay up. Firstly one shouldn't make such statements if you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is.
Then there's the matter of doing a (very worthwhile) charity out of promised funds. Added to which, another poster and I have agreed to match the £10 pledge once it's been paid, so gazzabok is potentially doing them out of even more, based on a flippant comment.
I have no doubt that gazzabok can afford to spare £10 and I'd like to know that they've paid up.
Ed - can you help track down the elusive gazzabok, as I've not seen any posts from them since their pledge? Thanks!
Posted 10:08 27th June 2012
blametheref says...
The worst bias in the Irish press is that few are calling for sweeping changes and Kidney's head in the Irish set-up and are willing to accept mediocrity in Irish team performances with all sorts of crazy excuses (we haven't the strength in depth, the players etc), this is the starting point as to why Irish teams fail and cannot perform with any degree of real belief and consistancy because the level of expectation is low to begin with. This is even reinforced by the coach with his "win some, lose some" attitude and his favourite mantra "we're getting there." The reason our media are like this is because most of them have a cosy access relationship with the IRFU and the coaches, it's always a wonder how some of these journalists always seem to get the team sheet right days before it is announced. Liam Toland, I will say is one of the better analytical journalists who will speak his mind and is not so biased as the writer above maintains, though he is passionate to see Irish teams win, no doubt.
The IRFU has failed a golden generation of Irish players over the past 15 years. Proof of this is that they kept coaches who have consistantly underperformed for years when any other country in the top 10 nations would have sent them packing years before. As an Irish fan, I'm ashamed that a sport we can excel in is being denegrated so much when it should so different......All I can do is swallow my pride and say, "hail to Irish mediocrity", cheers!
PS. Want to know what it's all about NH v SH? Check out the reaction of Rob Howley of Wales and Irish coach Declan Kidney in contrast to Pierre Spies reaction to South Africa having not lost a match in the recent series...says it all really!
Posted 09:45 27th June 2012
GCP_JONES says...
@new_j4a.....
Just like no Kiwi's seem to comment on King Ritichie's wandering Knee.
I have to say I did'nt see the supposed incident but I can assure that no-one would defend gouging of any sort that I know, so please no broad sweeping statements like that.
I think it would be great to tour the places you suggest.Why don't NZ show some good example and tour Tonga, Figi and Samoa.
Posted 09:27 27th June 2012
startledwombat says...
I'm baffled by some of the comments here. If PR's coverage and editorial is not to one's taste, maybe spend time on other sites not this one?
There's no point in hanging around with The Guardian when your views are catered for on Fox News.
Posted 09:17 27th June 2012
KingShark says...
@Tamjon I have become used to it by now. They always bay at the Springboks physicality etc, then to make up for it they employ one illegal tactic after the other. Diving into/over rucks etc.
Posted 09:09 27th June 2012
any1buttheABs says...
liam2me says
Is this PR's excuse when writing pro-English tripe that is never warranted by the facts?
All Blacks vs Ireland, Welsh Referee ??? I see your point, England are the villains here !!!!
Posted 08:39 27th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@curates_egg says..."Toland's excellent analysis was top notch. " Perchance because he shares your prejudice? I think that you just illustrated the point made in this article....Irish swill for Irish swine?
And you say this "Owens' very public response was the height of unprofessionalism and is something that a top ranking referee should simply not engage in. There is no defending it (regard of whether he was right or wrong)." Thank you for sharing your opinion. That is what this is, isn't it...your opinion? Not something that anyone should pay any attention to,....unless they aspire to be a sanctimonious prat like you?
Posted 07:41 27th June 2012
sandal says...
I tried to read Toland's article before this Loose Pass appeared. It was very difficult, for a couple of reasons.
First, he criticised on a level of detail that wasn't always appropriate to the difference in the views that he and Owens had -- particularly on that scrum towards the end where Ireland were penalised.
Second, and more importantly, because his article did not acknowledge many areas where Kiwis might object to the ref's decisions -- such as the penalty where Reddan appeared to dive over a prone Ali Williams' foot, or the penalty against an injured Thomson for not rolling away.
I couldn't help thinking, "We are Ireland, only our players get injured, only our teams suffer from questionable decisions."
In short, Toland was tallying one side of the ledger and largely ignoring the other side. That isn't journalism, it's fanaticism. I must acknowledge that I simply wasn't able to read the whole Toland article.
Most Irish fans here have shown a degree of realism and graciousness that puts Toland to shame.
Posted 01:53 27th June 2012
habershon28 says...
@papachinzo I seem to recall Israel Dagg being shown a card in the 2nd test?
Posted 01:48 27th June 2012
Tamjon says...
I was a bit dissapointed by the dirty tactics employed by the Irish during their tour, I have always liked the Irish team and didn't think they would stoop to this type of behaviour (apart from the game a couple of years ago where McCaw got kneed in the head). In one part of the game, Sexton came from behind and illegally took Dagg out of play when he did not even have the ball, at exactly the same time there was an Irish player rubbing his elbow in Whitelock's face. With Thompson's try, Barrett passes the ball to Thompson, immediately there is an Irish player holding onto Barrett to prevent him from taking any further part in that play. These are just a couple of examples from a continuous string of them. I cannot see how the Irish have any cause to complain about the ref, when they continued to employ these sorts of tactics, while only once getting punished for them.
Posted 23:56 26th June 2012
marz8ar says...
I think we (the Irish) do tend to highlight one or two calls that might not have gone our way when we lose. This is no exception. Don't get me wrong, I was gutted when we lost that game, and the manner in which we lost was even harder to swallow. For it to be snatched at the end like that is always a hard thing to take and I'll admit that in the immediate aftermath my only reaction was that we were robbed BUT I see no point in publicly getting on the case of a ref like Owens and making any insinuation that he has suddenly become biased. If there were mistakes made they were legitimately made and that's just an unfortunate fact of any sport.
Other than that I do feel like the article made it sound like the entire country was just whining about losing.
" Toland not being biased? He's an Irishman, writing for an Irish paper with a pro-Irish agenda. It's his job to be biased and find in favour of Ireland."
Despite the fact that the Irish Times claims no agenda why does the author fell the need to state that "He's an Irishman" like that makes him inherently more biased. I think that anyone who reads rugby in Ireland will tell you that no-one is more critical of Ireland's on-field shortcomings than ourselves.
As for the alleged eye gouging incident I don't think that there was any intent to make contact with the eyes and either way making contact with the eye area and gouging a player are two very different things. Don't think the incident should have been cited personally however there have been players cited for less (Neil Best 2008). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9lUtfzjPU4
I think that if the IRB want to cite incidents like this they will have to introduce a rule against recklessly making contact with the eye area and have reduced penalties.
Posted 23:19 26th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@GCP_JONES says..."If Ireland were to host a test series against a team ranked 8 places below them,they would hope to but a cricket score on them too"
Hope, yes....that is the operative word in Irish rugby, but I am not so sure. Ireland's win rate against Namibia is 50%....won 2 and lost 2....and Namibia is ranked down between 18 and 28....so usually between 12 and 20 ranking positions below Ireland. Have you considered a feel good tour of Namibia, Zimbabwe, Lesotho, and Mauritius?
Sorry to rub it in, but you guys do invite ridicule with your french like defense of gouging.
Posted 22:57 26th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@papachinzo says...."If I'm correct, the last referee to show an All Black a card (Alan Lewis) was swiftly ousted from International Rugby." I don't want to disturb any minute fragment of logic that may be lurking in the cesspit of your mind, but didn't Nigel Owens just give Israel Dagg a yellow card in one of the recent encounters? (The word match being avoided here because of its implication of an evenly balanced contest).
Posted 22:11 26th June 2012
curates_egg says...
A country that has made a speciality of winning from late drop goals? I can think of 2 examples where Ireland have won from late drop goals in 10 years. Methinks you confuseth Ireland with Munster - which it most certainly isn't.
As for the rest of the Kiss argument, it was complete bluster...but Kiss is a Kiwi after all, isn't he?
Toland's excellent analysis was top notch. Owens' very public response was the height of unprofessionalism and is something that a top ranking referee should simply not engage in. There is no defending it (regard of whether he was right or wrong).
Posted 22:07 26th June 2012
StunTheMullet says...
There are none so blind as those who cannot see eye gouging then go on to whine about a NH referee who blew the pea out of the whistle which benefited their own team by slowing the game down.
Could have, would have, didn't.
Posted 21:24 26th June 2012
marzie says...
"He's an Irishman, writing for an Irish paper with a pro-Irish agenda. It's his job to be biased and find in favour of Ireland."
If this is Planet Rugby's take on journalistic ethics then it explains a lot of the bias and agenda-setting on this website. Liam Toland's a journo writing for a quality newspaper. Ex-player or not, he's employed to be neutral.
Posted 18:53 26th June 2012
liam2me says...
"But we here found ourselves falling on the side of Owens on this one... Toland not being biased? He's an Irishman, writing for an Irish paper with a pro-Irish agenda. It's his job to be biased and find in favour of Ireland."
Is this PR's excuse when writing pro-English tripe that is never warranted by the facts?
Posted 16:47 26th June 2012
Carpelone says...
Nobody is arguing whether McCaw had the right to be there, which should be the starting point of this discussion.
Posted 16:29 26th June 2012
rockman says...
If there was anything to McLaughlins 'Gouge' McCaw would have reacted on the spot, remember his actions in the Final? I in no way condone gouging and think it warrants a long ban but not in this case.
With regards to Irelands performance, Kidney has to go. It is rare that a coach can keep a team in top form for a prolonged period (only acception i think being Graham Henry but he had the rotation to do it) and his time is up. Back to coaching u7's in Pres
Posted 14:55 26th June 2012