Don't mention the All Blacks in Dublin any time soon
This week we will mostly be concerning ourselves with the Irish (on a number of issues), a legend and an appalling attempt at fraud...
So: Ireland. It's been a storm this week over all sorts of things, seemingly with the end result that by the time the green front arrived in Hamilton on Saturday it had blown itself out. Let's see what's been going on...
First up, there was the conflict over the refereeing of last week's Test - admittedly hardly fuelled by the players. There was Irish Times columnist Liam Toland, a former Leinster player, writing lucidly over what he saw as inconsistencies in Nigel Owens' interpretations during the second Test.
Owens took considerable umbrage to this, replying on Twitter (among other replies): ""if asked for confirmation on about 5 of the points he made, he wd have the correct answer but then wouldnt have an article wd he?"
And there, you'd think, the debate would lie. And you'd be wrong.
Toland's response ran thus: "I am very disappointed in being accused of bias...The laws are open to interpretation and that is the way the assessors sitting in the stands will see it. I am not accusing him of perverting the outcome of the match."
And so the long day wore on. But we here found ourselves falling on the side of Owens on this one... Toland not being biased? He's an Irishman, writing for an Irish paper with a pro-Irish agenda. It's his job to be biased and find in favour of Ireland. And if he's not accusing him of perverting the outcome of the match, why is he writing the article about tight marginal calls in a match decided on the last kick..? Mister Toland, me thinks thou dost protest too much...
Then came coach Les Kiss on drop goals. "If you go for a drop goal and miss then why should you get the ball back from a missed kick?" he asked. "That shouldn't have been their advantage. They went through it and missed it as we were good enough to stop it."
Fair enough... but Kiss is talking from the point of view of a country that has historically made a speciality of winning from late drop goals and indeed has benefitted down the years from precisely the charge-down law that this time proved critical in their undoing. Wasn't it just a bit of what goes around comes around...?
The Irish have legitimate grounds for anger over the yellow card shown to Rob Kearney on Saturday, a decision rightly labelled 'ridiculous' by both he and Brian O'Driscoll at the time. But do the Kiwis have legitimate grounds for anger over the lack of a card in the second Test as well? Take a look at this videobefore you answer - and yes, we are taking on board that this is a Kiwi journalist on a pro-Kiwi agenda...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS_Qi586rtE&feature=plcp
Despite Ronan O'Gara's denial, Steve Hansen looks to have been spot on when he described Ireland as reaching their tour peak in the second Test. Fortunately for us all, the wars of words reached their peak just after it as well - we doubt you'll find any Irishman willing to talk rugby for a couple of weeks after the third.
Back to referees and a much more heart-warming story than nit-picking twitter exchanges came this week at the IRB Junior World Championship, where Paul Dobson was presented with a lifetime achievement award by the IRB.
Dobson officiated in his first match in 1955 as a student in Pietermaritzburg, going on to referee more than 40 first-class matches in Western Province.
One of Dobson's lasting legacies was his drive to unify the two different Referees' Societies in South Africa, representing the then different Unions. By the end of 1991, Dobson had successfully navigated the merger and the referees were the first Rugby body to achieve this, a year ahead of the Unions becoming joined.
Another is Dobson's contribution in mentoring such refereeing luminaries as Andre Watson - for whom he also wrote a biography - and Jonathan Kaplan.
"It's always nice when your own people recognise you," said Dobson after receiving the Award.
"But they didn't have to do it. Danie Craven said, 'If you love something you never have to make sacrifices', so I've never made sacrifices or felt I was serving. I loved doing it. I loved being with referees, I loved the whole business of refereeing and I've been one since 1968.
"It's the friendship of it, being part of Rugby football in a very special way. I've met marvellous people from all over the world and that's been great. I've enjoyed it enormously."
It's a merited award for a fantastic fellow. Most top-level officials and players will have come across him at one time or another, all who have will be better off for the experience.
Poor old SARU don't half get it from all angles. This week, on top of the criticism of the national team and ongoing unrest over the Southern Kings fiasco, yet another fraudster has been using the SARU name (and email domain) to rip people off.
Still, you'd have to wonder at the mentality of anybody who did fall for this particular mail...
"The South African Springboks has made considerable progress and improvement, and we would have not been able to achieve this great heights without the help and support of our fans and supporters.
"We have therefore decided to give back to our fans and supporters by introducing: GET 130% - 150% RETURN IN 5 DAYS INVESTMENT."
Right.... yeah.... delete
Loose Pass compiled by Richard Anderson
Comments
new_j4a says...
@crunchfit, Will do. You too. Plenty of it over there these days....free time, I mean.
Posted 15:53 04th July 2012
Crunchfit says...
Haha I'd swear you're about 13 with that kind of stuff. Enjoy your free time!
Posted 12:59 04th July 2012
new_j4a says...
@crunchfit the Irish school system must be so proud of you....and your mother would be too. You should get someone to read it to her?
Posted 07:50 04th July 2012
Crunchfit says...
@new_j4a
I'm glad to see I've gotten under your skin so much you're searching the site for my grammar mistakes (and tried to divert attention from your silly self-contradiction) but I find it quite childish to be honest. And it's a bit pathetic be bringing up a grammar mistake from over a week ago on an unrelated article. I don't feel like retaliating by pointing out your spelling / grammar mistakes including those in your most recent response, so I think I'm gunna finish now buddy. Besides, there's not much point arguing with someone who scours a website to find grammar mistakes, rewatches hours of rugby for a such a minor argument and argues over an incident he hadn't even seen. Congratulations on finding a grammar mistake though. Job well done. All the best. Cheers.
Posted 19:43 03rd July 2012
new_j4a says...
@crunchfit, Here's another...you say.."Perhaps you should aware yourself on the situation.." LOL (you're Spanish, right?)
Posted 17:05 30th June 2012
crunchfit says...
Another typo, whoops.
Posted 13:45 30th June 2012
crunchfit says...
@new_j4a
Nope, I didn't no where it came from! It was being discussed on an Irish rugby site. It makes your inaccuracies all the funnier. The contradictions are there to see so there would have been no need to go further. Also, you seem to have misread and / or misinterpreted much of what I wrote (again) so continuing further would just be unnecessarily long and complicated.
I didn't agree with much of what Talon wrote but hell, spending that much time just to make that point is a waste of time. Apart from the people involved in these arguments, there aren't too many people reading this exchanges so investing that much time or getting annoyed isn't the smartest idea for anyone.
Cheers, mate! Enjoyed the exchange. Hopefully are next one will involve less insults.
Posted 13:43 30th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@ PR Ed, I am all done. Got to go watch some S15 rugby...some evenly matched games at last... ;)
Posted 14:10 29th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@crunchfit, I am glad you have realized that correcting one another's English was a really stupid path for you to start going down....pointless and not a battle you will win.
I have contradicted you and not myself. I have pretty much dug that hole you talk about and buried you in it....so end of story for me.
I am glad you don't support eye gouging and think the Irish 6 should be banned. All you fall short on now is acknowledging that you attempted to distract from the legitimate condemnation of the Irish player by posting a fake picture that you claimed was equivalent (your words "Similar incident on Jamie Heaslip during the match").
As for "Watching 9 matches over and over and watching more just to try and prove me wrong is a bit of a waste of time," I don't think so. I have conclusively proved that Talon is wrong on all counts. That is satisfying. And perhaps the Irish Team should be doing the same? God knows, they need to do something to improve if they are ever to produce more than one good performance a year and, more importantly, stop driving their supporters into a frenzy of ref bashing, self denial, foul play apology, and thinly disguised sectarian finger pointing.
I agree that "We aren't so bad buddy." Absolutely true. Many fine people in Ireland. But the stupid ref bashing ignorant mob there are just as bad as they are everywhere else...and you stand fairly close to that ignorant mob when you post apologist crap, so if you don't want to get hit by the occasional verbal brick, change your stance.
The editor says.... new_j4a AND crunchfit: enough is enough guys...let it go.
Posted 13:41 29th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@crunchfit, Do you know what else I figured out? You didn't know yourself where the fake sequence had come from....you had never seen it! That is why you were ducking and diving and not providing the reference. One of your sibling trolls posted the fake still shot and you propagated it here twice that I know of without even reviewing the video. And your claims of just providing the link (i.e. you say "I only told people to take a look at the incident. I didn't comment on it because I hadn't seen it at that time") is a little bit of a lie with respect to not commenting on it or endorsing it, isn't it? Because 4 days earlier you posted this "Similar incident on Jamie Heaslip during the match" which might be interpreted as a comment on it....at least by all reasonable men, if not your average Irish supporter?
Posted 13:05 29th June 2012
crunchfit says...
@new_j4a
Just digging a deeper hole buddy! You've contradicted yourself a number of times now. At least you seem to have actually had a look at the incident this time round!
Anyway, I think McLaughlin should be cited and given a reasonably long ban, regardless of his intentions. I never defended it. Can you not read what I am wrote? I never ever claimed this incident was an eye gouge either. I don't want to have to keep pointing out your mistakes. You have the time to so why don't you read a little more carefully.
Don't worry, I'm not a stickler for words, etc. or I would have pointed out your typos, grammar and spelling mistakes mistakes of which their are a few. I'm sure I have some too. "There" was a typo. I pointed out your misuse of the word "slanderous" because it was an insult, it was an inaccurate use of the word as I had made no such statement and it is common knowledge that the term inapplicable in this written case. Your correction is simply childish. I can see a number grammar and spelling mistakes in your answers but it would be more stupid to go further down that road.
Also, I think you should get outside a bit more. Watching 9 matches over and over and watching more just to try and prove me wrong is a bit of a waste of time. It's funny that you find me the boring one!
I agree that you should calm down a bit by the way. It's only an comment section on a website. It's not a big deal.
I think I'll just bear in mind in the future that you seem to have a little bit of a grudge against the Irish. I hope we can get you past that though. We aren't so bad buddy. All the best!
Posted 12:36 29th June 2012
Kevin83 says...
new_j4a
"exposed by the finest rugby team in the world....and before some prat starts going on about "bad winners," I have absolutely no connection with NZ and have never even been there. And I hope that my team beats them in the RC/4N"
"civility? This is rugby, not croquet old fellow."
Rugby's basic ethos is a game based on respect due to its physical nature. To encompass all aspects of respect you MUST include civility.
You have made some wild accusations in all of your comments that are not only unfair but, as you put it, Swill.
If you are in fact an Irish man, I'll buy an All Blacks Jersey!!!!!
What team in the RC/4N would that be then. i thought you said you were Irish no?
"So in spite of NOT being a qualified ref and in spite of being a very long way from the action and obviously having a fairly loose acquaintance with the Laws of the game....he calls Owens a cheat. What a prat!"
At no point in his article did Liam Toland call Owens a "Cheat" and never implied as such. DO NOT accuse anyone, esspecially a noted journalist, of making such allegations. Have Shame.
Posted 10:23 29th June 2012
APV1 says...
@ new_j4a - a very good point. Thank you for reminding us of what a cheat Richie McCaw is. Punching?! On a pitch?! Cheating rotter!
;-)
Posted 10:13 29th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@sandal, Thanks! I like your stuff too. No I am not "an immigrant to Auckland." Why do you ask? I would love to visit NZ (for the rugby and the fly fishing) but have never made it over there (I wanted to make it over for the RWC final, but the QF derailed my accumulator bet and decreased the motivation).
On your point regarding "calming down," you got it. I will tone it down. My view though is that these lying ref bashers who try to discredit and destroy a ref are just slightly more civilized but even more harmful than the idiot who ran onto the field at Loftus Versfeld to physically attack the ref (giving rise to the only punch Richie McCaw has ever thrown on the pitch).
Posted 08:24 29th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@GCP_JONES, you do have a valid point...my rhetoric is a a little OTT (not by accident btw). To misquote Woody Allen, With Ref bashers "bricks and baseball bats are far more effective than satire." So Mr. Jones, here's the deal. If you want to see the charming side of me (all social skills and grace), don't go mindlessly attacking and destroying a great ref just because your team was exposed by the finest rugby team in the world....and before some prat starts going on about "bad winners," I have absolutely no connection with NZ and have never even been there. And I hope that my team beats them in the RC/4N (and I'll be having a go at our SH fans if they stoop to the new lows of ref bashing and foul play apology being established in Ireland and France)
Posted 08:12 29th June 2012
sandal says...
@new_j4a
Interesting tag. Are you, by any chance, an immigrant to Auckland?
I usually agree with your observations, and I often admire them. You have done a lot of work in picking apart Toland's dishonest whinge -- far more work than I could be bothered with. Toland is being dishonest with himself, as much as anything, and though he has found some support below the line on Planet Rugby I believe most Irish supporters here have been both realistic and gracious.
Please don't think I am being patronising, but I would like to warn you to calm down a bit. Some people aren't worth fighting, and you have gone a bit far in some of the things you have said.
But please do keep posting. I enjoy your contributions, and I am sure other do too.
Posted 06:13 29th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@crunchfit you say..."Check your facts, buddy! " Right I did just that and fortunately I didn't have to watch another 240 minutes of Irish humiliation. I was right! The incident is in the 57th minute of the SECOND test...57 minutes and 42 seconds to be exact. What has been confusing me is that your post about minute 57 on this thread and my answer that I had seen it are only 2 hours apart and I knew that I just ran into the sequence by accident....what chance of that in just 2 hours? BUT now I have it figured out....you posted more or less the same post twice...this was the first...several days earlier and on another thread (Carter drop kick etc):
crunchfit says...
Similar incident on Jamie Heaslip during the match: http://i48.tinypic.com/2j5mc74.png
By the way if people are going to point out the McCaw incident, they should probably mention the one on Heaslip too and be more even-handed in there criticisms. 57th minute.
Posted 17:45 22nd June 2012
So what are you on about now. First you excuse the eye gouging by diverting attention to a fake claim that you say you hadn't even watched....you say this afterwards of course....not up front. Second you go on like a primary school kid about how you have caught me out. Now let's talk about the eye gouging you seem to be defending.
Also, since you are a bit of a stickler for words and the meaning of words (e.g. my colloquial use of the word slander) you have used the wrong word in this word group: "... even-handed in there criticisms." (Should be "their"....come back anytime you want to improve your understanding of the Laws of rugby or the English language "buddy."
Posted 22:26 28th June 2012
new_j4a says...
@crunchfit, Yes, yes yes, its true. I mistakenly called it the 57th minute because that is what you called it. I read your post, looked at the still photo went back to re-watching one of the games, I saw the place where the still had come from and went back and forward a few times, making a mental note that the comparison with the Irish 6 having 3 goes at McCaws eyes was a bit dishonest. Sometime later, an hour, who knows I posted a quick answer to you...making the same mistaken reference that you did. Yes, yes you are right (clever boy!!!), in a strict legal sense slander is not written (at least in English common law which Ireland and large chunks of the world benefit from) Yes, yes, you are very clever at diverting attention from your cunning attempt to diminish the eye gouging charge against Ireland. Now go argue trivialities with somebody else if you don't mind, I am going back to review all 3 of Ireland's humiliations just to satisfy myself that I did see it and am not going mad....problem is Irish rugby is nearly as boring as you are, so I might drop off to sleep
Posted 20:38 28th June 2012
GCP_JONES says...
@new_j4a....
This is a rugby web-site not a pitch,one of the many great things about the sport is the code by which its played, a core pillar of that code is one of respect (You Me Auld Mucker are sadly lacking it), pure and simple. I take offence at the words you have used in getting your observations across.
You may have a "life" but you really need to brush up on your social skills
Posted 19:50 28th June 2012
crunchfit says...
@new_j4a
"I watched the 57th minute and saw why you only produced a still photo". You claimed to have watched the 57th minute and you made a conclusion having supposedly watched the incident during that minute. The incident didn't happen during that time or even near that time. There was not even a maul during this period¿ Now, you are now asking me to tell you not only what time the incident occurred in, but what match it occurred in! That's a bit strange considering you claimed to have watched the minute I referenced and seen the incident occur during that minute as well as watched the three tests "over and over many times".
Also, I don't have to make up for making a slanderous claim. The statement was not slanderous. Apart from the fact that that term is only applicable to spoken statements, I only told people to take a look at the incident. I didn't comment on it because I hadn't seen it at that time. Check your facts, buddy!
Posted 17:10 28th June 2012