7ton says...

Rolf

Well said

with the possible exception of delibretely collapsing a scrum on your own try line I fully agree.

The scrum should not be used as a tool to win yourself a penalty and to try and con the ref. Penalties should be awarded for foul play and delibrate infringements not because you are forced upwards or downwards.

Posted 18:58 22nd September 2011

blametheref says...

@Windhound

Australia were missing Moore and Pocock, Ireland were missing Flannery and David Wallace, all play in the same positions, all are first choicers for their countries, so it's even on the "missing players" excuse!

Talking of scrums, it's interesting to look at the link to this page of Australia ready to engage against Ireland in that scrum...Ireland are at least 6" to 8" lower and straighter than Australia, with one Australia 2nd row with an angled down back and the flanker not right either...that snapshot alone tells a huge amount about the solution to Australia's creaky scrum...

Posted 10:18 22nd September 2011

7ton says...

Windhond

!00% to a Saffas liking you say (your liking not all S Africans)

Well it would be for you seeing he has accused everone else of cheating except South Africa.

Posted 09:32 22nd September 2011

WindHond says...

@ NHsaint..... Spend a bit more time reading the article again, and maybe you might just understand what is being said. If you still dont get it, ask a few of the more rugby intellects on this blog to interperet.

@Pogmahon.... That is because the hooker that Cobus is referring to did not play against Ireland !

@ Timmo... obviously you never saw Cobus scrum. Why not write sens an email or two to some of the ABs that scrummed against him. He was given the nickname " 3 man " for a very good reason.

Thanks again for a very insightful read. 100% to a SAFAs liking, just wish more of our rugby journalists would say it the way it is.

Posted 06:53 22nd September 2011

blametheref says...

With props the "cheating" accusation is quite easy to assess. When it comes to the scrum the big men have big egos and big reputations to preserve.....so, when they get screwed once in a while in a match they accuse their opposite prop of cheating...just like when you see to guys having a good arm wrestle, one finally wins, the other inevitably accuses him of cheating, all face saving stuff really, unless there's a ref around!

Posted 00:18 22nd September 2011

7ton says...

Iteresting to read about the scrums here and the referees perception.

It really furthers suspicion that on some occassions referees are just guessing who the culprit is when penalising teams as the scrum collapses.

More finger pointing about cheating again but maybe, just maybe, Cobus may like to point the finger at SA in his next article

Posted 23:40 21st September 2011

carpelone says...

@ BackingLeinster

Did not mean they were bad, as said they are extremely competent and they often outsmart more physical front rows.

Not binding is never tolerated, only in case the ref judges that safety is at stake.

Posted 21:07 21st September 2011

Lucasrg says...

Strange, no mentions on the Italian scrum, wich is both an offensive weapon and a disrupting force. Rember Italy vs. NZ in 2009? First Half against the Aussies? various games in the 6N...Russia vs. Ita? that is a dominant scrum. When Perugini will be fit again and join Gheraldini and Castro, hopefully for the Irish game, watch it.

I can only see one or 2 scrums that will dominate this WC...the SpringBoks and the Kiwi one. Don't get me wrong, Irish scrum is prime and so the France one.

Posted 17:39 21st September 2011

BackingLeinster says...

@Carpelone

Breaking your bind (putting your hand on the ground) in the scrum is a penalty. You don't have to be give time to get it back, some refs do. Healy broke his bind and then rebound without putting his hand on the ground during the match and he was penalised for this. Those two penalties were spot on. He enforced the binding rigorously from the start and was consistent. He would have went through that with them before the game.

Also i don't know remember irelands scrum being bad in the 6 nations. it was not dominant but stood its ground. Also that was 6 months ago. The whole point of training which these guys do almost every day, is to improve. Sure it can even happen during a match. Leinster were being destroyed in the scrum in Heineken Cup final in the first half. a bit of coaching at half time was enough to force a turn around to the point were they started shunting the northampton scrum back.

Posted 16:57 21st September 2011

Carpelone says...

I found the first part of the article very informative and providing the perspective of the referee.

What I did not understand is how cheating at the breakdown is relevant to scrummaging.

Australia's scrum survived (just) against the Italians, so I did not agree with all the praises going around after the first match. In the same way, I disagree that they were dominated by the Irish, they were just heavily penalised by the worst referee in the lot. I mean that Oz's scrum was penalised twice for putting the left hand down, but they were not given any time to go back to the correct binding. If this is the criterion, Crockett would give away a penalty for each scrum.

Ireland's scrum is competent, not dominant. They know what to do, and if they can, they do it. In the 6N, they couldn't.

Finally, Castro plays in the Premiership and is possibly the most dominant 3 n business.

Posted 15:35 21st September 2011