Leinster

crunchfit says...

@makemehappy

My point here is that you imply that you know Jenkins better than others here and seem to think you have a more accurate view on his ability due to apparently watching him closely and frequently, yet to support your argument, you use a match which he was not even playing as an example. It's not ridiculous or pedantic. Your argument is based on your knowledge of the player but that knowledge is not reliable, as you demonstrated. How could someone, who knows Jenkins as well as you say you do, miss something like that?

No, he provided the example. You responded. That doesn't mean you provided an example.

He was put under pressure by Ross during one match, independent of issues relating to his propping partner for most of those scrums. He wasn't able to beat Ross clearly in a RWC match. He even had to collapse a scrum. If he is the outright dominant scrummaging prop you claim him to be, neither of these would have happened and there would be a clear example of his utter dominance over Irish props.

Posted 12:39 10th May 2012

DrDeath says...

@makemehappy

The crux of your argument seems to be that because Jenkins did not struggle in the past he is still the best!

This is a fallacy of inductive logic which, if taken to it's final conclusion, would lead to the WRU continuing to select Graham Price in the front row!

It's likely that his finest season was the Grand Slam of 2005 (when he was approximately the same age as Cian Healey now, by a strange coincidence!)

Posted 11:56 10th May 2012

crunchfit says...

@makemehappy

You said he didn't provide any examples in your last response ("¿you haven't so far") but he was actually the one who provided the Leinster vs Blues match as an example ("look at the Leinster-Cardiff quarter-final"), you just responded.

You can have a bad game, it doesn't mean you have become a bad scrummager overnight. It Most rugby fans know that and nobody here suggested it.

Jenkins did not play against Ireland the year before. He was out due to injury. You said you watched him week in week out but I question how closely you watched him, if at all, judging by your lack of knowledge of his absence, particularly given the important time at which it occurred and the nature of the injury which caused such a lengthy absence. Not to mention, bar the RWC year, Wales and Ireland only play each other once a year. How could you miss this, given you watch Jenkins so closely week in week out?

Anyway, I mentioned it before to you that this may not be as black and white as you seem to think. You said that it simply is and I must have been watching the wrong match. Well, to support this, you've used an example where he was not even playing in to support your stance and in your other example, the match of the RWC match, Jones was the dominant prop, beating Healy - not Jenkins. Ross dealt with Jenkins for the most part. In fact, Jenkins even collapsed at least one scrum. In the example provided by DrDeath, Jenkins is being comprehensively beaten, and from my viewing of the match Andrews contributed to Jenkins' difficulty during some scrums, but a lot of the time Jenkins was going down under pressure from his opponent, independent of interference from his teammate.

None of this supports your idea that Jenkins is the outright dominant prop in the NH, it certainly doesn't support your idea that this issue is black and white.

Posted 20:55 09th May 2012

crunchfit says...

@makemehappy

Enjoying the debate, as I you and I have had a disagreement regarding Jenkins recently. You mentioned something to DrDeath about providing evidence in your last comment. He did provide an example to support his point (Leinster vs. Blues). You also only provided a single example (Wales vs. Ireland).

From what I've read, you've both made justifiable remarks... It's not a case of your remarks being justified and his not being so.

Posted 14:47 08th May 2012

DrDeath says...

@makemehappy

Your tone is that of a petulant child! Both armchair general and I very politely expressed opinions which for some reason have upset you.

It is your right to agree or not as you see fit but I take great offense at being called an "idiot"! I expect such epithets from drunk Welshnen late into the night after a game but if you cannot be civil then frankly you should stay off a grown up website!

Posted 17:48 05th May 2012

BODsGODmisspelt says...

Gunner: Outplayed for a change yes, but he was obviously struggling with his knees from about 30 minutes. I'm sure he was advised to come off but refused to as it was a semi.

I really think Ferris needs a break from playing and training. He is going to end his career if he keeps playing through the pain. If he keeps going like he does he won't make it past the six nations.

Posted 09:53 03rd May 2012

Gunner says...

David Denton had much more impact at 6 than Ferris did that day! Some big carries and surprisingly more present at the breakdowns. Credit where it's due.

Posted 05:15 03rd May 2012

makemehappy says...

@pog_mahone - thanks - I know the female problem! I wouldn't bother with the Blues - keep an eye on Toulon!

@DrDeath - you just aren't getting this are you. I highlighted you need to watch more rugby as your comments relate to one game. That was a game (as I've said before) the Blues scrum was in disarray - due to Andrews! You haven't noted my comment about the international game where Gethin had no problems at all. I presume that means that you concede the point. I would draw your attention to Gethin's performance around the park in the only game you are able to refer to - it was outstanding - tackle after tackle. Perhaps you don't remember. I think that's the end of this argument, or do you just want to refer to one not game? As I said, you need to watch more rugby.

Posted 20:23 02nd May 2012

DrDeath says...

@makemehappy

I graciously concede that Jenkins has been a great player and tentatively suggest he may be coming to the end of his career.

You rather tersely suggest I watch more rugby.

I WATCHED Ross bully him all day in the quarter finals. Your defense (apparently without irony!) is that the Blues scrum is "useless" in spite of it containing the greatest ever loose-head in the history of the game currently at the peak of his powers!

Not putting much of a shift in for his mates is he? Or is there some other reason why he cannot raise them above their mediocrity?

Posted 15:26 02nd May 2012

Saint_Andre91 says...

'(...) in the 41st minute. From then on, Rougerie was not as prominent while O'Driscoll went well (...)' - great, so you didn't even notice that Rougerie spent the entire second half on the wing (Byrne out, Regan in at centre, Rougerie switching to the right wing)?

It tells a lot about the selection process :)

Posted 10:45 02nd May 2012