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@crunchfit - when have I said he is the best scrummaging prop - I clearly didn't. You are talking rubbish yet again, so lets just all move on PLEASE!! And please don't be so rude and aggressive.
Posted 17:48 16th May 2012
And another thing .......
Posted 09:01 16th May 2012
Why are you writing comments on my responses when you clearly haven't even read them? I already corrected mistakes you made from not reading what I wrote. Would it not have occurred to you to read my responses at that stage, before responding again?
Firstly, I agree that Jenkins is the best prop. I explained this already. Secondly, this debate is strictly about scrummaging and how Jenkins is not the dominant scrummager which makemehappy has made him out to be on this occasion, and others. Thirdly, I didn't fail at naming a prop. That would suggest that I tried. I didn't try to name one for reasons I have explained already. Finally, I had actually ended my responses to makemehappy. There was no need for you to tell us to move on (or grow up). If you had actually read what you were responding to, you could have saved yourself writing that mostly unnecessary and irrelevant response.
You said move on and grow up despite getting involved yourself. That is being hypocritical. And you are still involved. Further hypocrisy¿
Posted 21:26 15th May 2012
It is indeed time to move on (as indicated previously). Gethin remains the best as no other worthy competitors have been put forward! All the best all.
Posted 18:57 15th May 2012
@crunchfit - how on earth could I be a hypocrite based on one comment, and you having no previous knowledge of anything to do with me. You need to look the phrase up and prove that you don't have an attitude problem by keeping quiet when ill-informed.
Clearly makemehappy did get confused with Jenkins' playing record, but you have still failed to alter the fact that Jenkins is the best prop out there. Just look at his work rate. You have also failed miserably, despite being asked numerous times, to name a better prop. That is the end of the matter. You have no views, so be quiet and stop criticising (and moaning)!
Now for god's sake let's all move on. Prove to us that you can act as an adult and simply respond by agreeing that we agree to disagree!
Posted 17:21 15th May 2012
Did you actually read this discussion? DrDeath referenced the match where Jenkins was beaten repeatedly by Mike Ross. I provided an example where Jenkins was unable to beat John Hayes in his mid 30s, who was never a great scrummager in his prime. makemehappy used the RWC match as an example, where Jenkins didn't do particularly well, although his partner did, as well as another match in which Jenkins wasn't playing.
I suggest you improve on your reading skills and learn what exactly moaning means. Also, if you're going to tell us to move on and grow up (not even applicable in this case as you would have seen if you actually read the argument), don't join in the argument right before you write that. You are being a hypocrite.
Anyway, no hard feelings...
Posted 19:30 14th May 2012
@all those still posting to this thread - makemehappy - get your facts straight regarding playing records. You are right however that drdeath and crunchfit have provided no evidence (bar a single game which was far from representative) or Gethin's apparent demise. He is clearly the outstanding prop in world rugby, actively playing internationals over the last 10 years. As you both haven't supplied any evidence to the contrary, I suggest that you stop moaning!
So to all 3 of you - time to move on and grow up!
Posted 18:03 14th May 2012
@crunchfit and drdeath - you're going round in circles - just give it up. You just haven't found any evidence to support him being anything other than the best prop in his position and are unable to offer a rival. It really is time to move on. Thank-you!
Posted 17:53 14th May 2012
! quote your earlier post "how many more times can I confirm that I'm talking about the last two Wales v Ireland games!!!???"
These are 5/2/2012 (6N-no Jenkins!)
and 8/10/2011 (RWC-Jenkins played!)
This is obvious from crunchfit's posts!
This I believe is the nub of his post & I am amazed you cannot understand what he has said!
Posted 15:48 14th May 2012
You: "How many more times can I confirm that I'm talking about the last two Wales v Ireland games!!!???"
Me: "Between 2010 and today, Jenkins has played against Ireland in one match and that match was during the RWC."
You: "How you think he wasn't playing in the RWC as I stated is beyond me!"
Me: "He only played Ireland in the 2nd last match between the two, the RWC match"
You seem to be having some difficulty with comprehension so I think I'm gunna finish here. No worries. If you think a guy who can't outscrummage John Hayes, when he was almost retired, with a particularly low standard scrummaging partner who was being demolished by Jones, is the outright best scrummager in Europe, then fair enough. All the best.
Posted 15:29 14th May 2012
@crunchfit - read the earlier posts.
Posted 13:26 14th May 2012
What do you mean?
Posted 22:17 13th May 2012
@crunchfit - you need help! I have told you he played against Ireland in 2011 and he did. You really need to stop being critical and so pedantic. How many more times do you want to make yourself look ridiculous. Keep on posting and that is all you will do. So for the last time - time to move on (hint, hint).
I have posted the team lists below just to keep you quiet. Enjoy reading it! If you need help reading let me know, I will point you in the right direction!
Ireland: Rob Kearney (Leinster); Tommy Bowe (Ospreys), Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster, capt), Gordan D'Arcy (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster); Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Conor Murray (Munster); Cian Healy (Leinster), Rory Best (Ulster) Mike Ross (Leinster), Donnacha O'Callaghan (Munster), Paul O'Connell (Munster), Stephen Ferris (Ulster), Sean O'Brien (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster).
Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues); George North (Scarlets), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Bayonne); Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons) Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Toby Faletau (Dragons).
You haven't been able to name another prop to compete with him. Even a fool would have just randomly looked at a team sheet!
Posted 20:46 13th May 2012
No worries, just make sure if we discuss this again that you check if Jenkins is actually playing! Remember, recently he only played Ireland in the 2nd last match between the two, the RWC match, and he didn't play in the last match, the 6N, as you wrote: "I'm talking about the last two Wales v Ireland games". Better check the team sheet next time maybe.
Anyway, Jenkins isn't a bad option to have on the Lions tour, he may not be able to beat a nearly-retired Hayes with a poor scrum partner or Mike Ross, but the Aussies haven't got the best scrummaging props so I think we'll be OK.
Posted 12:39 13th May 2012
@crunchfit - how you think he wasn't playing in the RWC as I stated is beyond me! That just shows that there is no foundation to any of your comments. That ends that matter.
@DrDeath - well done on siding with someone - well done on not providing any argument as requested. If you need help constructing an argument and quoting more than one example, then let me know! There is no evidence that he is passed his best - just look at the scrums and the loose - and please stop quoting the one useless example!
Posted 18:38 12th May 2012
Some things he responds with really make no sense. Ye, probably best to step out judging by the responses so far.
Jenkins was only playing in one of those two games you referred to. He has only played one game since 2009. Between 2010 and today, Jenkins has played against Ireland in one match and that match was during the RWC. Jenkins was not part of the 22 in the other match you referred to, let alone the XV.
I may give you my suggestion closer to the date. I don't really feel like getting into a debate about my selection as I don't feel like getting into a debate about the best prop in the loose.
Well, when Jenkins and Hayes played in 2009, Hayes at 34 / 35 years old handled Jenkins easily, despite his partner being demolished by Adam Jones and Hayes isn't even a great scrummager. If a prop can't out scrummage Hayes under those conditions, I really doubt he is the best. And if Hayes can keep scrummaging while his partner is being demolished, why can't Jenkins do it with Andrews? Jenkins was demolished. Even I was surprised.
Sorry if I'm being pedantic. It's not intended. I was trying to point out some fairly obvious things to you but you don't seem to get it e.g. I tell you that Jenkins has only played Ireland once since 2009, yet you still refer to the last two games. It's strange that you don't seem to comprehend some simple facts like these. That's also why I don't want to get into a separate debate. Sort out that issue, and I'll then give you my answer. I think we're done for now. Cheers man.
And until then, while you're watching Jenkins week in week out, make sure you check if he's actually playing! All the best.
Posted 14:47 12th May 2012
Leave him, he's not worth it!
You posted a very patient and thorough deconstruction of all makemehappy's arguments. He then responds with non-sequiteurs and yah-boo comments while clearly not having read your posts at all!!
Posted 08:37 12th May 2012
@crunchfit - how many more times can I confirm that I'm talking about the last two Wales v Ireland games!!!???
This whole article is about the best players. I'm not diverting it - you clearly are! Is it about the best fullback scrummager? NO!
Please get your facts right. Mine are spot on. (There's obviously no point in arguing this point further).
Glad to see you still don't push forward a nominee. The final whistle has blown - you had enough chances.
In terms of being relaxed, I most certainly am. I am irritated by pedantic individuals who cannot argue. It takes all sorts to make a site such as this successful though.
So if you want to reply, get your facts straight, but by all means don't feel embarassed if you haven't. That is your choice. I would be if I was so wrong and unable to argue a point.
Personally I though Hayes used to be under pressure from Jenkins.
So take a deep breath, relax, calm down and enjoy some rugby tonight. Your last long rant can't be good for your health. Time to move on again I think.
Posted 18:22 11th May 2012
No. As I said: "Apart from the RWC, Jenkins hasn't played against Ireland since 2009". So the match you referred to before or after the RWC was one Jenkins wasn't involved in, yet you were using it as an example...
All I have ever argued was his scrummaging ability because loose play is another argument and I don't think Jenkins is the best in that area at all. Our last discussion was about scrummaging, this argument started on the same issue, but you tried to divert it. You pointed out the importance of examples, and it's hard to find sufficient stats to back up tackles and turnovers which is why I don't want to get into it.
Maybe he does put many props under pressure and maybe he doesn't struggle against English props. Ross didn't struggle against Jenkins though. Hayes has struggled with a lot of props for example, but he, at 34 / 35 years old, didn't struggle against Jenkins. And he had the same issues that Jenkins had with Andrews in the Blues scrum, but he still managed against Jenkins¿
You need to get your facts right man. I never said he wasn't the best overall, I think he is, but only just. Also, I can come up with a more suitable prop, I just don't want to enter into another debate. It's confusing enough just about scrummaging.
My facts are right. Maybe you don't know what providing an example means. Anyway, I don't really care. Why would I be embarrassing myself? It's just a discussion in a comment section on a website. I've not even said anything embarrassing. I'd be more concerned with starting a response questioning whether I was saying he didn't play against Ireland in the RWC despite actually saying it: "Apart from the RWC... since 2009".
Again, just relax man. If ye can't handle a debate without having to insult people, maybe you shouldn't get involved. It's only the internet my friend. Accurate facts should suffice.
Posted 12:59 11th May 2012
@crunchfit - so you are saying he didn't play in the RWC?
When did I say he was the outright dominant scrummager? I'm on about allround ability. I don't think he did out-scrummage Ross in any of the games, nor was he under any trouble. What he did do was produce many more tackles and also turnovers. Being a prop is not just about scrummaging you know! He does put many props under pressure. He doesn't struggle against English props, Ross certainly has been known to!
Clearly I have used several examples. I pointed out one wasn't relevant and two are. That totals three (or perhaps you will argue about that too).
You need to get your facts straight!
Glad to see you weren't able to come up with a better prop. I think that proves that you acknowledge he is the best too. Glad we agree on that, so time to move on, I'm sure you agree, unless you wish to embarass yourself further.
Posted 18:10 10th May 2012
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