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@fattysock, I love it....facts! That what we need more of. Excellent post.
Posted 18:10 03rd September 2012
"If you can't score at least four tries against Argentina, then there is a big problem."
Can someone remind me how many tries the All Blacks scored in their 33-10 win over Argentina at the WC last year? I guess that means the ABs have a big problem as well?
Not that White is not entitled to his opinion.. but in their last 50 matches, Argentina have only conceded 4 or more tries in 3 matches (SA 2007, SA 2008 and France 2012)... so I guess a lot of teams are in trouble huh?
Also, while they do not have the same calibre of opposition generally, their record compares reasonably to Aus (4 games in last 50), SA (6 games) and even NZ (2 games).
Posted 14:22 03rd September 2012
It would be bad for RUGBY if it becomes like the ENGLISH PREMIER FOOTBALL LEAGUE!!!
When a coach is appointed he brings in new thinking, startegies, support staff and also most of the time players. Even the new ABs are not immune to this concept.
Also SA is a team in transition with a few old - gold players moving on and new guys trying to find their feet.
A major problem for most countries (except NZ) is finding the "right players" from the club/region/ franchise pools. With expanded local and regional tournaments quantity is there but seems to lack quality. Look at Australia; with 5 teams in S15 they cant find a decent 15 to put on the park!!!!
People who have memory of the S12 would remember that International Matches were far better and more competitive entertainment than today. Even the bench oozed class those days.
In a few years it will come a full circle and the touranaments will shrink again , when powers that be realize too much of anything is bad for business! Untill then it will be coaches who will bear the blame, the likes of HM, RD, even WG (wales). In case you think SH could play God, wait till there is a draw/loss or even a very close encounter to see the knives out in open.
Posted 06:38 02nd September 2012
@saffastormer says..."You seem to forget that he is being paid a HUGE salary" Really? What's your information? I thought he was being paid about $250K/year including all bonuses (around Rands 10M over 4 years). That's very cheap for a world class coach. (I think he's second rate personally, compared with Deans, Henry, etc.). And if you are as shocked by his salary as you sound, you'll probably be interested to know that in business and industry, people at that level and far above are given time to settle in....a honeymoon period, if you like. Are you sure you are not Australian?
Posted 11:09 01st September 2012
The Springboks were to arrogant, talking to a few squad members the night before the test they seemed over confident and in thier mind they had already won with 4 tries and were on the plane back home, Least i say that they took that attitude onto the feild with them for everybody to see.
White has earned the right to air this thoughts, but White also got humiliated in his first season.......we all know what happened next. HM is no fool, he has the knack of turning things around. remember his Bulls finishing bottom of the Super rugby Log a couple of times?
I feel for the players been tossed aside before they even get a chance to shine, good players who get dissregarded bounce back, show thier metal and proove themselves. When HM was appointed it felt like the rugby gods answered all my prayers for the previous 4 years, now they need to answer them agian and hopefully HM will come good, like the players he is disregarding along the way....................... if it was the same for HM he would of already run his course.
Posted 10:48 31st August 2012
The all blacks have drawn with Argentina back in 1985. And the games in Argentina over the years have been mostly very close. I wouldnt be putting lots of money on the all blacks getting 4 tries in Argentina. South Africa playing that brand of rugby against a passionate Argentina at home was always going to be difficult. Meyer does need a plan b and I have seen south Africa play much more successfully in previous years using all the players talents.
Posted 10:42 31st August 2012
If Meyer persists with an old Bulls-style game plan I expect to see the ABs do to the Boks what the Crusaders did to the Bull in their recent semi-final.
Posted 10:40 31st August 2012
To all saying :Give him a chance !
You seem to forget that he is being paid a HUGE salary to deliver the goods in a professional capacity. Do you really think that anyone else starting a new position in a professional capacity in any other non-sport related area and earning his salary would be given a chance to find his feet, settle in, try a few things, perhaps make a few deals that fall flat ? B0llocks!!! at this level he is expected to deliver from day one. SA has the players in great depth as well to be a serious contender to the pace setting AB's
Posted 06:54 31st August 2012
I guess it is all about performance, but has anyone noticed he is actually unbeaten coach ? I would wait until the Boks play NZ in Dunedin.
I fully expect them to lose, but so far he has not lost a game, and England are won of the top ranked teams...
Posted 05:50 31st August 2012
David Skippers who are you and what is your rugby pedigree? Whether you agree or not with any of the coaches is irrelevant. Please just stick to your job as a 'reporter', your opinion is worthless.
Posted 04:49 31st August 2012
ridiculous journalism. The reason Goosen and Vermeulen have been included is because they are good players and have previously been injured and nothing to do with dropping players. Why not write the article about how the good young players are being brought in when they are available.
Posted 20:47 30th August 2012
Sorry APV1 - totally disagree!
A national coach ist not a rookie trainer of any local club.
He is appointed as the man with the plan and may pick whoever he thinks are the best players to make it work.
no schonzeit for him.
not when he has them playing this kind of yetserday rugby.
Posted 19:02 30th August 2012
As far as I am concerned being a Bok coach must be the easiest job in the world with all of the abundant talant available in SA. He has at least 3 players in each position that he can choose from that have the potential to win the WC in 2015. A number of those with x factor potential if used correctly. Then look at an AB game on video 50 times and see how you get 22 players that can play like 22 forwards, 22 attacking backs, 22 die for your country defenders and 22 off load (SBW Style)specialists and you have a formula of a winning team. Then just keep his eyes open for any new x factor talent to come along to drop one of the 3 that are not doing the job.
Posted 18:40 30th August 2012
Have to agree with you m8 coaches need a little bit of time ,to find their feet ,get to know the players,ect ,Before they can try and mould them.HM didnt know his players at all,so opted for the traditional crash and bash -kick and chase of SA rugby.Got a bit lucky against England that they held out for a win in the 2nd test and draw in the 3rd ,but that was a ok start.Trying the same gameplan now though was a bad decision though,,everyone knows you cant bully Argentina,and the Newlands win was more down to pumas nerves and being overwhelmed by the occasion imo,rather than bokke superioty,as they outplayed the bokke 2nd half ,and all match in Mendoza.Hopefully now HM will start expanding the bokke game ,as JW was spot on atm the gameplan isnt a wining one.
Posted 17:11 30th August 2012
APV 1 I would agree with you if he had tried a few new faces and perhaps a different style instead of the old Bulls way. The All Black model is there for everyone to see.. its not rocket science. Power combined with flair. Simple.. 10 man rugby is old hat and against the AB's especially its time has gone. Playing the Pumas who essentially play the same way i am with White in that if they cant a beat the Pumas never mind putting 4 tries past them then there are serious issues.. and I mean no disrespect to the Pumas as i'm sure White didnt. Look at the way the Sharks played before exhaustion and all those time zones took their toll. I suspect (as unlikey as it is) if new Zealand drew with the Pumas, questions would be asked big time in NZ. Can anyone seriously doubt the AB's will score at least 4 tries both home and away to the Pumas?
Posted 16:39 30th August 2012
@APV1 agreed, there seems a complete inability to grasp the cyclical nature of the sport. All teams have to renew, with only the ABs being able to make it relatively seamless based largely on a style of play that's coached from schoolboy level and maintained through to the senior game.
England have finally grasped (8 years too late) that expectations immediately after RWC need lowering what with the immediate and prospective international retirements and that there needs to be a rebuilding phase (two good coaches lost to that failure). The result, coaches and players unburdened of the fear of defeat and playing to their ability.
Won't comment on Meyer's style of play because I haven't seen them properly this term but of his results so far they are unbeaten in 5 against good opposition (@carpelone - not sure that England are worthy of 4th at the moment and Argentina certainly better than 8th but England's draw was in South Africa).
The trap that the Boks cannot fall into is having a coach selecting experience at the expense of development for the sake of a guaranteed result - its a philosophy which is unsustainable.
Posted 16:20 30th August 2012
And I would just like to add one more thing... Those springbok players need to start man'n the %$£$ up! They are boks and they are the ones who need to start delivering, not the coach.
Posted 16:16 30th August 2012
Agree - Argentina are a very destructive unit. They play hard, physical and frustrating rugby. Teams cant settle against them.
I think HM is the man for the job still. He'll produce the goods.. all in good time. People demand results to quick now a days. Lets judge him in 2/3 years time.
Posted 16:15 30th August 2012
Of course he is under pressure.
I think that two or three things went the wrong way for him (the injury to Pat Lambie in the second test against England prevented him to try him at 10 in the third test, an awfully long list of injuries, possibly due to bad player management), however he is running a little bit late and he is not where we want him to be.
Only time will tell if the results with Argentina are good or bad. Personally, I rate Argentina higher than the Poms.
Posted 14:50 30th August 2012
I know we all want results, want our teams to play fast-flowing and attractive rugby, and want to develop the youngsters, but really? 5 games in?
We need to start giving coaches a little more lee-way to make mistakes and learn from them. Otherwise we'll no better than the soccer coaches over here - lose a game and you're fired, it amost seems.
He seems to have learned a bit, with the new players being introduced into the squad, so let's see how he gets on.
And ex-coaches really need to keep their opinions to themselves. How are they helping the situation by slating the current coach's style and selection?
It goes against the grain for me to defend a Saffa coach, but this is a worrying trend, which I hope doesn't spread further afield.
Posted 14:43 30th August 2012