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Nice to see that some people are willing to condone a little violence and savagery. There is no place for that kind of play at any level of the game. It was also clear that Youngs piled into two people, the second of whom went to pull him off his first victim. One week ban just a holiday anyway, that is unless someone cited him and then it might go further. The knee looked like it went in the throat, give me a break."
whilst i agree there's no place for it in the game, I'm not sure if i'm understanding you correctly, are you saying youngs went looking for a fight with two people?
Firstly he was being held down, secondly the irish 9 tackled him to the floor off the ball. The irish 9's hand's also made contact with Youngs eye area. Didn't Cueto get banned for the same thing last year?
I'd also suggest you watch the clip again, his knee was nowhere near his throat, it made contact with his left moob.
What is it you have against him anyway?
Posted 12:53 29th March 2012
Ps, PR please be aware that headlines like these don't help. However subtle / subliminal it may be, our anti-English brethren will only further develop their one-eyed view of ben youngs / English players supposed "thuggery"
Posted 11:30 29th March 2012
This is nothing more than handbags and not worthy of citing. Tigers are just trying to appease before a citing takes place
J-hdk, I think you're getting a bit carried away. I see emotive responses like yours as being too extreme and you are getting lost on an idealistic pedestal.
Yes foul play should be dealt with, but a player can get just as badly injured in a tackle or ruck, it's a contact sport. If you want to see a non competitive emotionless sport, you've chosen wrong mate
For those that have played the game, no one enjoys mindless thuggery, but we'd all be happy to stick up for a team mate on the wrong end, or respond to foul play against ourselves. That's just human nature
Posted 11:25 29th March 2012
2 of 2 (told you I'd ramble on!)
But I don't want our game sanitised so far that it becomes a nonsense. We're already seeing the scrums go in that direction. I know they needed to be safer, but they're an absolute farce at the moment, often with neither team knowing why decisions are being made.
I'd like to see the return of rucking against players lying on the wrong side, but it needs to be policed well to stop players getting hurt. How? Well the players themselves will learn not to be there in the first place and we all know that there's a massive difference between rucking someone out of the way (studs on torso, arms and legs in a firm but not vicious manner) and a deliberate attempt to hurt (vicious rucking to "delicate" areas - face, groin, etc).
Iżd also like there to be a sensible decision about citings. In my opinion, if the offense is dealt with on the pitch, that's the end of it. When it's not, that's when the player should be cited. Otherwise they're getting penalised on the pitch and then cited for the same offence. Stephen Ferris' recent yellow card is a good example - what a waste of the citing panel's time. Even when the ref makes the wrong on-pitch call, it's left there. And, I think, this is where the white card should come in. If the ref is unsure, no action taken on-pitch, white card shown, dealt with later.
Anyone still reading this?!
Posted 11:23 29th March 2012
1 of 2
I'm in two minds about this and many are making reasonable and sensible arguments. So here's my tuppence-worth, and please bear with the rambling nature of it:
I've played rugby as a flanker and used to push the laws until pinged. I used to play offside at the ruck and generally got a good shooing (sp?) for it too. I've had the odd deserved punch and given a couple in my time as well. I've also had plenty of bones broken through no fault or malice, just because it's a contact sport. I've even broken the ribs of my friend and team-mate by accident. I've also been the "victim" of high tackles and been the "perpetrator" of them. Never deliberate from either side - usually ducking into a chest-high. I remember winning żGimp of the Gameż once for decking my own #9, who I thought was the opposition #9, who had been a terrier all match and was getting away with murder (not literally, of course!). I gave him a swift thick-ear, only to discover he was in my team and I, deservedly, had the dress that evening.
It's a hard, physical game and should remain so.
But deliberate thuggery is unacceptable. Gouging, biting, kicks or punches on helpless people, headbutting - those sorts of things - are in the realms of thuggery. I would, however, take someoneżs finger off if it deliberately ended up in my mouth, attempting to fish-hook or similar. I would also, I hope, know the difference between an accidental and a deliberate "stray" hand or finger - there would be intent and force behind the action.
I'm also aware of people being seriously hurt from accidents and deliberate acts.
Posted 11:23 29th March 2012
A story, mate of mine caught a couple of yobbos vandalising cars. He intervened, a small fracas ensued resulting in one of the yobbos getting flattened and his eye blackened. Outcome, no prosecution for the vandalism, 1 for my mate for assault - the reason - they had made no aggressive move towards him so he was the aggressor in the situation. 30 years ago, the yobbos would have been made to pay for the damage and the black eye would have been treated as the end of the punishment - no-one would have got anywhere near the courts.
A flipside to that is a local man who got into a bit of push and shove with some kids, he ended up falling and hitting his head - now dead.
I absolutely agree that the physical side of the game is what makes it attractive, but elite rugby is the sports showcase and the laws need not only to be upheld but to be seen to be upheld otherwise it will simply attract the nutters mentioned by @pierredelot1.
We've just seen Dylan Hartley banned for biting, an offence for which he was a victim last season. The ref's reaction at the time was basically that he deserved it (he probably did). Now I've defended the sensible reffing in that incident compared to the reffing of the England game BUT, to a young potentially impressionable player, what message did Mnsr Poite's reaction send to Hartley - "its OK if he deserves it"?
Does anyone remember England v South Africa from about 10 years ago was that hard, tough rugby or was it just 60 minutes of mindless violence.
I agree that there are instances of pettiness from officialdom, but sometimes not, and lets face it - there have been question marks over Youngs' temperament historically and this may be a "you could have cost us the game" suspension.
Posted 09:36 29th March 2012
Are you really that big an idiot or are you just trolling for attention?
Knees, punches, bites, trips, kicks,and gouges etc etc are not part of acceptable behaviour on a pitch and must be cited and punished along with dangerous tackles. Failure to do so, particularly in international and professional games leaves the viewing public with an idea that these sort of things are tolerated and thusly ok to do in a game. if you want to be the one explaining to the parents of what ever 15 year old that has just had their vertebrae shattered or their ear drum perforated or tgeut rerunretina detached, cornea irreparably damaged etc etc....sorry about that but wer thought citings were ruining the game..be my guest..
More serious foul play should involve severe fines on the club, not just player bans. Including the option to deduct points or possibly disqualify from knockout for repeated infractions from a club....cough cough... Northampton.
Posted 09:32 29th March 2012
Now headhunter that makes sense, bring back rucking all for it. Why the hell they decided to get rid of it is beyond me. Yet they still call that mess at the breakdown a ruck half the time, why don't they call it a mess. But Youngs totally lost his head, not acceptable
Posted 09:24 29th March 2012
I'm with Pierredelot1 on this,.. Anyone who has played rugby,.. and at any level will know that alot more goes on than most spectators realise,.. there sould be no room for this in the professional era, peoples careers are at stake now,.. and even the most innocuous looking think can end up with a career threatening or ending injury,.. just ask players like Gavin Quinell..
Posted 08:50 29th March 2012
@benski - Could not agree more, the game is becoming almost a non contact sport. In no way do I condone any attempt to hurt or maim an opponent but the beauty of the game was the element of physical self policing.
Since rucking has been outlawed for instance we suffer interminable slow ball and open cheating, prior to this any player on the wrong side was shoe'd out. By all means punish the gougers and the biters and the cowards who punch a helpless player in the ruck or maul, but lets not forget that physical intimidation was an integral part of the game.
Posted 00:03 29th March 2012
Nice to see that some people are willing to condone a little violence and savagery. There is no place for that kind of play at any level of the game. It was also clear that Youngs piled into two people, the second of whom went to pull him off his first victim. One week ban just a holiday anyway, that is unless someone cited him and then it might go further. The knee looked like it went in the throat, give me a break.
benski when I started reffing some years ago, there were players in a number of clubs who were bordering on the criminally violent, happily with rigid refereeing, citing, call it what you will, those people have been removed from the game. It's a better game because of that too, you want a good bundle join the army
Posted 23:58 28th March 2012
@Jediboy it's because refs have been told to clamp down on it and because all the suspensions and hearings are news on here now...
Posted 22:06 28th March 2012
You have to wonder if he'd be cited, had he received a yellow on the pitch. It's one occasion where I actually agree with Stuart Barnes (read his Sky column), whilst players can't be allowed to throw their weight around they often do because they've been provoked in the first place; it's rare that a player simply loses it for no reason. Back row players in particular will always push the boundaries of what is acceptable and the onus has to be on the officials (specifically, the touch judges) to spot and penalise these incidents; the minimum requirement should be for them to keep an eye on the binding/angle of the blindside props at each scrum, the defensive offside line and anything going on off-the-ball which the referee will not be concentrating on. I also think the video referee should be entitled to provide the referee with any feedback spotted by the cameras in real-time.
Posted 19:25 28th March 2012
What's going on at the moment????
Why are so many players getting themselves into trouble??
Or does it just seem like that?
Posted 18:26 28th March 2012
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