In the mix: Calum Clark
Northampton flanker Calum Clark and Gloucester back duo Freddie Burns and Billy Twelvetrees have all been named in the England Elite Player Squad, announced on Wednesday.
Also included in the squad following his return to rugby action is Leicester blindside Tom Croft.
There are seven changes from July, with call-ups for Burns (Gloucester), Clark (Northampton), James Haskell (Wasps), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), David Strettle (Saracens), Twelvetrees (Gloucester) and Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers).
The requirement for an eight-man replacements' bench during the Six Nations means that the Senior squad has been extended to 33 and Mako Vunipola (Saracens) moves up from the Saxons.
There are seven changes to the Saxons squad with Elliott Daly (London Wasps), Kyle Eastmond (Bath), Will Fraser (Saracens), Shaun Knight (Gloucester), Ed Slater (Leicester), Joel Tomkins (Saracens) and Billy Vunipola (London Wasps) all making their first appearances this season. Billy Vunipola will train with the senior squad in Leeds (January 20-25) while Croft (Leicester) continues his return-to-play programme.
"The fact that we have spent significant time deliberating over quite a few players shows how tough the competition is to get into this 65 and the strength in depth that is emerging," said England Head Coach Stuart Lancaster.
"We have made some changes to both squads and we feel that reflects the players' form during the first half of the season. There will undoubtedly be movement between the two squads as we go through the RBS 6 Nations and that was evident in the QBE Internationals, with players in form pushing through such as Freddie Burns, Joe Launchbury, Tom Youngs and Mako Vunipola.
"This is a very important year for England, with the Six Nations and the Saxons games to look forward to so there are some great opportunities for the players to demonstrate their club form at international level. The summer tour to Argentina will also be a great chance for those players pushing for a place, especially with some of our Senior squad hopefully going with the Lions, and chances will undoubtedly arise as we hope to play two midweek games as well as the two Tests."
EPS squad:
Forwards: Calum Clark (Northampton Saints), Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (London Wasps), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers), David Wilson (Bath), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers).
Backs: Chris Ashton (Saracens), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Freddie Burns (Gloucester), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (London Irish), David Strettle (Saracens), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).
Saxons squad:
Forwards: Mouritz Botha (Saracens), Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby), Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers), Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints), Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints), Will Fraser (Saracens), Joe Gray (Harlequins), Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers), Shaun Knight (Gloucester Rugby), Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors), Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors), David Paice (London Irish), Tom Palmer (London Wasps), George Robson (Harlequins), Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks), Billy Vunipola (London Wasps).
Backs: Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby), Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers), Tom Biggs (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (London Wasps), Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), George Lowe (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Ugo Monye (Harlequins), Joe Simpson (London Wasps), Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby), Joel Tomkins (Saracens), Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins), Christian Wade (London Wasps), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens).
Comments
ArmchairGeneral says...
@Perdelot: "Picamoles outclassed all three of the back row tigers (No Croft) and made Waldrom look like a useless lump." He didn't make him look useless, he exposed him as the useless lump he occasionally hides being.
Posted 17:10 20th January 2013
pierredelot1 says...
Whenever the anti playing in France lobby chirp up, they talk about players chasing cash and not being nationalistic. The playing career of a rugby professional lasts at the most 16 years but probably on average 7 or 8 especially at the top. Having 7 or 8 years in which to earn a financial platform for the future, knowing that at the end of your playing career you're probably going to be carrying a couple of chronic injuries for the rest of your life is a major milestone.Professional rugby isn't that Saturday afternoon kickabout enjoyed by many, compared to the amateur game its bloody brutal. More big hits go in in ten minutes nowadays compared to what went on 20 years ago. Everyone on this website has to have a future and hopefully a settled and well financed one. Quite often working abroad fulfills that wish, especially in todays European society. That England deny players going to Europe the opportunity to play for their country is plain wrong and to me smacks of small mindedness. To me the best players should be chosen, end of.
Posted 10:28 18th January 2013
APV1 says...
@ simojukes - Hear! Hear!
I have come round to the concept of overseas-based players not being selected, after originally thinking it was daft. We spend a lot of time worrying about player development and "foreigners" in the EPS (at least, some do) and this is one way to keep the home-grown talent at home.
I don't buy the "missing training" excuse, but if players have ambitions to play for England, they must play IN England. It may not keep all of them, as some will chase the £££s, but I'm sure there are plenty of English players who have remained to keep them in with a shout of the EPS.
Posted 10:37 14th January 2013
simojukes says...
@pierredelot1 most people agree that waldrom should not be in the squad. he isnt a very good player. but seeing as SL is limited on how many changes he can make to the EPS, there were clearly more pressing matters.
Regarding your comment on french based players, i will assume you are talking about some like S. Armitage... he claims that he will do anything to play for england, and yet he continues to play his rugby in france... it has been made very clear to him that all he has to do is return to the AP and keep playing well there. obviously he likes the french life, and the look of his bank account more than he does playing for england.
@BWJC, agreed that care is on great form, and if youngs can pull finger, then the battle between the two can only be good for english rugby! i agree an 8 an 9 can make a good combo, but with the amount of time that players get together, and the regularity of test matches now, all the england players should be close enough to make good partnerships. In the old days Dallaglio (Wasps) Dawson (Saints) and Wilko (Falcons) all managed to work pretty well. The real thing is for the management to create an environment in the england camp that is viewed as almost being "Club England", if they can get that going then it will mean that players will be easily rotatable within that squad. Dallaglio said during the week that when england won the grand slam in 03, they used 36 players during the course of the 6N's. SL should not be afraid to have a look at some other names during the Scot and Italy games.
I also feel that 12Ts could be a great option to play 12 with burns at 10 and Manu 13. He has spent enough time playing with both of them in the past that he should work nicely linking the two.
Posted 14:32 12th January 2013
BWJC says...
simojukes - fair do's, I didn't see that article so I take your point.
Yes you're right Easter works best of 9, and with that in mind, the form 9 is Danny Care so would make a great combnation. No doubt Youngs will start though.
Posted 19:36 11th January 2013
pierredelot1 says...
Can't see where this Waldrom v Easter argument goes. Saw Waldrom at Toulouse against Picamoles. Picamoles outclassed all three of the back row tigers (No Croft) and made Waldrom look like a useless lump. He's OK at Club level but give me a break, he has no class at all. Pity lumps like him can get in the squad when proper Brits carrying passports but playing in France can't, sad to say I hope this short sighted policy comes back to haunt them. Great to see a passing 12 in there, the singular lack of creativity in the middle of the park is a glaring error. But true to form as in Rugby League, England tend to go for physical mass as opposed to brains and skill which at the very very top invariably flounders. Backs who can't tackle however have no place in an International team, they are a liability whether at 10, 11 or 14. Just don't pick em as someone else has to do their job for them. Be interesting to see who wears the 2 jersey as Hartley will get genuine pressure from Youngs who is much less expensive.
Posted 14:50 11th January 2013
simojukes says...
@BWJC last sunday there was a 2 page article in the Sunday times sport section, in which Easter claims that comment was "a joke"... if that is not a man admitting it was he who said it, then i dont know what is? in said same article, Easter admitted (after talking to cueto and tindall who told him they had been dropped due to age) that he thought he was "too important" to be dropped as well. Tindall had been the CAPTAIN, and Easter thought he was more important... it is quite well documented that easter is a bit of a maverick, and i think that the management have decided that his personality does not provide enough to warrant him coming in, as he will not be around at 2015.
Waldrom is not a great player, i agree that on his playing merits he should not be in. However it is quite well known that Leicester players are "rugby nerds". They spend most of their time studying stats and other facets of the game. Waldrom is most likely adding a dimension in the squad that is a bit more behind the scenes.
Easter and Morgan are quite different players (easter big bear who likes to offload and take the ball off 9, morgan more of an explosive 8 who works off the 10), so Easter is not actually the ideal man to be there mentoring Ben.
One last point, everyone claims that Easter has been playing so well in the AP and therefore has to play for england. My personal view it that he is playing well because he does not have england to worry about. and another reason could be because he feels he has something to prove. if he gets picked for england, what left does he have to prove?
Posted 14:48 11th January 2013
BWJC says...
lawynd - thanks for agreeing you were wrong, mark of a man who can admit his mistakes.
Yep NE is not going to make the next RWC agreed, but it does rather make a mockery of things when Lancaster is picking a player that pretty much most people on here (not just me) agree is nowhere near international standard. Waldrom wont be in the squad in 2015 so why pick him over someone who's in the form of their life and would make a big difference in the 6N's? A good 6N's would put us in a great position for "the future", regardless of whether every single player in the sqaud will be around in 2015. Morgan would learn a lot more Easter I can assure you.
And yes those comments at RWC11 were pretty daft, but 1. they have never offically been attributed to Easter, and 2. People says daft things from time to time!
Anyway as mentioned I'm very happy the big man is at Quins to steer the ship through the 6N's period and onto our 2nd Premiership title!
Posted 12:22 11th January 2013
heart_of_oak says...
APV1 - I like it and the, what shall I call her, the mystery guest - the very lovely Ms Widdecombe. You knew I couldn't resist a response to that, didn't you ? She was at Roundhegians t'other day, giving a cookery lesson to our front row. It took our prop forwards a while to settle down after the lovely lady had spilt whipped cream all down her substantial front.
Anyway, I digress.
Seriously though, both you and Lawynd score Varndell more than Wade. Yet Varndell isn't even in the Saxons.
By the way, why no Attwood ? I've not watched all Bath's games this season. Has the big fella lost his form ?
Posted 12:13 11th January 2013
APV1 says...
@ heart_of_oak - a good effort, for an amateur, but here's the REAL figures (with a couple of missing people):
Varndell - TS = 7, D = 4
Strettle - TS = 3, D = 4
Ashton - TS = 4, D = 3
Wade - TS = 6, D = 4
Sharples - TS = 5, D = 5
Lowe - TS = 5, D = 5
May - TS = 5, D = 5
Monye - TS = 4, D = 6
Biggs - TS = 10, D = 10 (weighting x 10, as he's a Bath player)
Eastmond - TS = 9, D = 9 (weighting x 10, as he's a Bath player)
Widdecombe - TS = 2, D = 25 (infinite weighting, naturally).
So, by my reckoning, It's Biggs and Widdecombe who should be first choice, with Eastmond and Varndell next cabs off the rank.
Posted 11:20 11th January 2013
lawynd says...
@BWJC - yes...and those changes are reflected by players like Burns and Twelvetrees being called up, no? And, more pertinently to this aspect of the discussion, Billy Vunipola.
Face it - Easter, for all of his qualities (and I've never said he doesn't have any, unlike you slamming the players you don't like) is too old for Lancaster's stated aims, as I've already pointed out. And that's a fair point by simojukes - Easter's comments at the end of the France game at the RWC were poor-taste, at best.
Posted 11:03 11th January 2013
BWJC says...
lawynd old chap, it would help if you actually read the article before you start hurling insults.
You asked "who on earth in the England management team said they were 'picking on form'?"
Stuart Lancaster (he's the England head coach, look him up) said in the very article above, that you are commenting on "We have made some changes to both squads and we feel that reflects the players' form during the first half of the season"
Any comments or insults to add to that?!
simojukes - Never heard anything about Easter not being a team player so I can't comment on that, but is Whaldrom really a "mentor"? Not like he's had an illustrious career and players look up to him? If we need mentors in the squad then we should bring back Dilly Dalligo!
Posted 09:32 11th January 2013
Heart_of_oak says...
Lawynd nice one. I'd be interested to see what your scores would look like if you applied a weighting factor to your categories.
Anyway unless we get more responses it isn't a very useful sample ie just you and me.
On another note, despite being disappointed that Varndell isnt even in the Saxons and Atwood isn't recognised either I have to say I'm pleased for burns and twelve trees so it isn't all negative.
Bit of a risk picking Tom croft with so little game time however.
Posted 08:16 11th January 2013
simojukes says...
@BWJC - Easter has never really produced his club form on the Test stage, the odd good game, but has never really had such a big impact as he should have done, especially compared for how he plays for quins.
I agree that Easter is currently playing better than Waldrom, but i feel, and based on media reports and word of mouth, that Easter is much of a "team player". Waldrom on the other had is most likely in the EPS to act almost as more of a mentor figure, especially for Ben Morgan, who is very much like Waldrom was when he was younger.
The fact of the matter is, Easter hasnt produced enough on the test stage (not saying waldrom has), wont be around in the long term, and has done/said a few things in the past to raise questions of his character.
if your character does not fit in with the squad then you can actually be a negative factor, especially if you dont deliver the goods
Posted 21:24 10th January 2013
lawynd says...
I'm game, heart_of_oak...although I feel it should be expanded to include all of the wingers in the EPS.
Chris Ashton - TS = 6, D = 4
Tom Biggs - TS = 6, D = 6
Kyle Eastmond - TS = 5, D = 3
George Lowe - TS = 5, D = 5
Jonny May - TS = 7, D = 5
Ugo Monye - TS = 4, D = 7
Charlie Sharples - TS = 6, D = 5
David Strettle - TS = 4, D = 5
Tom Varndell - TS = 8, D = 3
Christian Wade - TS = 7, D = 3
Personally, I'd be picking Tom Biggs and Jonny May based on that, although the reality is somewhat different.
Posted 21:07 10th January 2013
heart_of_oak says...
TVaddict - I just noticed your earlier post in which you provide some measures by which to judge the back 3. I like that though of course, like my assessment of try scoring and defence, at the end of the day, the assessment is your own. You have Strettle as a kicker and Ashton as a finisher and sometimes a worker. Hardly the greatest assessment of the wingers presumably rated highly by Lancaster. But you also have Varndell only as a Finisher, an attribute you apply to Biggs as well whereas Varndell has scored many more tries than Biggs. Don't you think finishing, by which I think you mean scoring tries, should carry more weight than say kicking ? So I'd be interested to see a weighting factor applied to your categories and then to see how your assessment stacks up.
Sorry for the maths lesson folks....
I just want to make the point as objectively as I can, that even if Varndell's defence aint that good, then (a) it's no worse than most other wingers' defence and (b) his try scoring record should outweigh that.
If we really wanted a great winger with great defence I think we should look at Delon Armitage... Oh no, we can't can we. Forgot, if you play in France, it's impossible for the selectors to consider you. And before anyone says Armitage has a bad disciplinary record, check out his record on this point since joining Toulon and compare it against the record of Ashton who does get selected.
Posted 20:13 10th January 2013
heart_of_oak says...
Now back to the Varndell debate..... those who say his defence is lazy, I assume you only have this against him since his try scoring record is very very good indeed. Do you believe the defensive qualities of Ashton, Strettle, Sharples, Wade and any other winger in the EPS or Saxons are better than Varndell's ? And is Varndell's defence so much worse than that of others that it outweighs his try scoring ability ?
Lets apply a statistical approach to this conundrum, just for the hell of it as Brian Sewell would say. If we score these wingers out of 10 for their try scoring (TS) and defensive (D) qualities, then the winger with the highest total based on a pretty good number of responses, should logically be selected at the very least for the Saxons, if not the EPS.
Here are my values.
Varndell - TS = 8, D = 4
Strettle - TS = 4, D = 4
Ashton - TS = 4, D = 3
Wade - TS = 7, D = 4
Sharples - TS = 6, D = 5
Biggs - TS = 6, D = 5
These are my figures based on games I've watched this season. I am quite sure no-one will agree. If so, that's fine, just let's see your figures.
Posted 19:28 10th January 2013
heart_of_oak says...
I have to say the selection of Strettle ahead of Varndell who is not even in the Saxons, annoys me. But on balance, alot of what I've been hoping for has come about i.e. Burns and Twelvetrees being promoted. Could Twelvetrees be the answer to our inside centre problem ? I think it depends on the opposition - if you need good defence you'd go for Barritt and if you need a bit more guile you'd go for Twelvetrees. At least that's my view.
Posted 19:25 10th January 2013
APV1 says...
@ lawynd & BWJC - easy now lads. Aren't we all on the same side with this one?
Posted 17:12 10th January 2013
lawynd says...
@BWJC - who on earth in the England management team said they were 'picking on form'? I think you'll find that most of what's been talked about is building towards 2015. This is typical really of England 'supporters', if Lancaster and co. were solely focussed on just the next game (like Johnno) then there would be incredible belly-aching about not looking to the future, now that they're doing that (whilst balancing it with short-term wins, otherwise several players would have already been dropped like hot potatoes) the pendulum swings back the other way.
Also, what's with the insults about a chap's bodyshape? If that's all you've got to sneer about it shows how much of a berk you actually are.
Posted 16:07 10th January 2013