Stuart Lancaster: Backing his young side
England coach Stuart Lancaster insisted his young side would learn from a record-breaking 30-3 loss to Wales which denied them the Grand Slam and Six Nations titles.
The Red Rose brigade's quest for a first clean sweep of their major European rivals since their World Cup-winning year of 2003 ended in dismal failure at the Millennium Stadium on Saturday, with Wales smashing England at the scrum before, as the match wore on, dominating at the breakdown and in the loose.
Wales wing Alex Cuthbert's two second-half tries put the result beyond doubt with England's only points coming courtesy of a first-half penalty from fly-half Owen Farrell as the visitors suffered their heaviest margin of defeat in this fixture, surpassing the 25-0 loss they endured in Cardiff back in 1905.
Almost as concerning for England was the fact this result meant they'd managed just one try in their last four Tests.
Yet it was as recently as December that Lancaster's men defeated world champions New Zealand in stunning style with a 38-21 victory at Twickenham to spark a run of five straight wins.
Lancaster, who has now lost both of his matches against Wales following last year's 19-12 reverse at Twickenham, insisted this result could yet benefit his side, just as Clive Woodward recalled in the build-up to Saturday's game how several Grand Slam failures had laid the path for his team's World Cup triumph.
"No complaints, the best side won on the day," Lancaster said. "From our point of view it's a very disappointed dressing room and coaching staff.
"To win the last four games has been a fantastic experience for us in the Six Nations but to come up short today is hugely disappointing.
"On the bigger picture we'll learn a lot from it. Wales have 650 caps, we have less than 300 and we've managed in other games to get momentum and a foothold in the game.
"At half-time we still thought we were in the competition, but the momentum Wales built told in the last 20 minutes."
Meanwhile Lancaster rejected talk this thumping would have any bearing on a 2015 World Cup where hosts England are in the same pool as Wales.
"I think we play a few times before then, two lots of Six Nations," he said. "I'm sure this time next year we'll not forget this. You've got to give Wales credit. We ended up chasing the game and made error on error and made a bad job worse.
"The third quarter was critical. When Wales got the 12-3 lead and then the try you could see us begin to chase the game and the game went away from us. But we're a young side and I don't think any international side goes unbeaten.
"Wales not long ago had lost a few on the bounce but they held their nerve and that's what we will do. We'll stick together. We've got some good players to come back into the equation and a summer tour to look forward to while the rest of our players go away with the British Lions."
England forwards coach Graham Rowntree was disappointed with the number of penalties the team conceded, the visitors repeatedly on the wrong end of Kiwi-born Australian referee Steve Walsh's whistle.
"I need to look at the tape again," Rowntree said. "You come off a game like that and you have to look at yourself first, but I need to see those scrums and the breakdowns again because the penalty count was too much against us. We'll have a good look at what we can do better there."
Comments
Coshie78 says...
Part 2: Reasons to be cheerful (not easy) - Wales were by far the better team, on the day!
Age, experience etc all good but not the only reasons for optimism...
England looked drained, the 6 day turnaround and the adrenalin rush of playing at the Millenium stadium seemed to leave the team totally flat footed... Can learn from that for future preparation (squad selection/training etc)
Welsh defense has been highly praised (rightly so). However, England exposed it twice only for poor skills/decision making (both by MT) to squander the opportunities. That can be fixed, we have the coaches...
The scrum (hear me out). Alex Corbisiero has bested Adam Jones before and will do again. Would have forced him off tired after 30/35 mins, Mako could have come on against his replacement and made his impact around the field! (which was excellent I thought). Cole is still the best tighthead around, he didn't have his best game, but doesn't make him a bad player...
Ben Morgan and Billy V, both will make a huge difference in future games for England, neither was on the pitch on Saturday...
Foden, May, Strettle, Wade may all get their opportunity in Argentina. We have a huge amount of attacking talent available...
It was made evident by a very good Welsh team that England are still a developing side and team culture and attitude can only get you so far. However anyone thinking they have reached their potential is a fool. The coaching staff is good they are all at good clubs. As long as the performances year on year improve I can see big things in the future!
Posted 16:33 18th March 2013
Coshie78 says...
Part 1 - The ref: Firstly, well done Wales, deserved winners regardless of below:
The issue with criticising the referee if you support the losing side is it is seen as sour grapes. A bit one-eyed, but sensing the anti-English nature of those backing his performance I give their views zero credability as well...
At the time, as an ever deepening depression set in, I found myself getting extremely angry with Walsh. Allowing myself time to grieve and delete text messages from Welsh friends and family I watched the game again yesterday focusing on his performance. To highlight the difference when taking the passion out of opinion. Was fully prepared to eat humble pie and admit to myself the ref had no impact..
However, quickly with the scrum, Wales were very dominant but some of the penalties were ridiculous. On one occasion, after confusing Tom Youngs about moving (he hadn't) he raised the whistle next to his lips before he said Set, then blew straight away... It appeared pre-conceived and was at best inevitable...
Far more importantly were the penalties at breakdown. I counted the time allowed for tackled players to roll away. Walsh was 2-3 seconds more lenient on the Welsh players, yes I am sad and yes I counted...
Walsh was harsh on both teams at times when over the ball, however, 5 times Walsh penalised England for holding on or for hands in the ruck. The incidents were as identical as you could wish, tackler had rolled away from ball, second player in was over the ball for about a second before an oponent arrived. England penalised with or without the ball...
The fact every England fan predicted he'd be bad smacked of no smoke without fire, then I read his anti-English comments in the press after criticism from SCW. It is a disgrace this man is permitted to officiate at all, let alone against England!
Would have prefered a Welsh ref!! Or even Allain Rolland!
Posted 15:53 18th March 2013
pierredelot1 says...
The best team won and thats the end of it, but for Lancaster to say he was unfazed in defeat is a worry. he wouldn't have been unfazed had the result been 10-9 to Wales but it was a tad more than that. Perhaps now on tour he will take a minimum of two openside flankers, two centres capable of seeing whats going on around them, two proper wingers, recognise Brown for what he is, an attacking fullback who really attacks and blood at least one of the No 10s on the sidelines. This was a good, not great team who will learn and develope, but unless you have guys getting to the breakdown and contesting for the ball you ain't going to do a lot. Ashton showed he has more flaps than a 747 on Saturday and should be sent off to tackling school, defensively he just doesn't cut the mustard.We keep saying that International refs are wise to whats going on, personally I see no evidence of that, but they are not helped by the laws at the engagement that just do not work.
But the wise old heads of Gethin and Adam certainly gave Walsh a lot to deal with.
he came up short but thats what happens and fair play to them for playing the ref, Youngs yapping at a referee showed a real lack of discipline, refs hate anyone but the captain questioning a decision and they certainly don't want to get into a barny on the pitch. Walsh is much improved these days but I know from personal experience that if a motormouth gets going, it can get right up your refereeing nose. Wales were great on Saturday, that performance was more inclusive and more dynamic that any others,. Just one question how were they so bad for the previous 15 halves that they had played prior to the second in Ireland. Will it happen again ? Happily Lancaster will learn he has work to do and next season the core of this team will have moved on, lets hope so.
Posted 13:03 18th March 2013
IronManI441 says...
This match showed several things.
1. England are not mentally ready for the biggest stages. They were intimidated by the Welsh fans. They just wanted to do enough to hold on rather than grab the game by the neck and win, and their big players went missing. Farrell and Tuilagi let their team down with their play. Maturity needed. However a good whipping sticks in the craw and may help them in tournaments to come.
2. Wales are not as bad as they seemed in the summer and autumn, but nor are they as good as was thought at this time last year. George North and Alex Cuthbert have found their spark, Tipuric has arrived as a quality 7, and Andrew Coombs and Ian Evans are quality second rows in the making and Jamie Roberts was a beast in the tackle. However regardless of what the blind welsh commentators say, Warburton was not wonderful ever. All he has to do is play like any other international and the welsh sing his praises. He was never great, he worked hard. So do many loose forwards. (Robshaw, Tipuric, Harley, O Brien). Also Faletau was absent a lot of the time. He is not strong enough to gain big yards and relies on stepping defenders rather than being a traditional 8. Not sure he is of the quality that all the Welsh claim. More importantly, Halfpenny is class, pure and simple. He makes Alex Goode look rubbish (he isn't great anyways, rarely ever beats a defender and does not attack at pace), Kearney has been average, and Hogg has potential, but Halfpenny is simply the best by a mile.
3. The scrum needs better refereeing. It has always been an area known for dark arts, but Walsh was fooled by several different tactics that most rugby fans could see (non-binding by both england and Wales, soft or delayed hits leading to collapses by Adam Jones, and screwing in at the hit). Yes the English should just learn to do them better, or Refs could simply cut it out.
Posted 10:47 18th March 2013
jehosophat says...
Personally I was expecting a (much narrower!) Welsh win and even preferring that as an England supporter, as this side still needs a lot of work and the last thing England needed was thinking they had found their full side for 2015 and just needed to keep it together.
On the one hand this total hammering is a real set back and could do a lot of damage, on the other it was one result after a string of decent games - some of the more myopic commentators need to remember that this supposedly so superior Welsh side lost 8 on the trot recently and always play like drains against SH opposition. World rugby is a lot less predictable than it was and this result predicts nothing for the 2015 WC pool games.
The England back three are all wrong - Goode offers nothing in attack, Brown is not a winger, and Ashton is massively out of form. Wind back a couple of years and the England back 3 were a genuine threat, lacerating Australia and others.
The back row lack go-forward - Robshaw's stats may be good but he lumbers predictably into the tackle every time. Morgan offers the thundering go-forward but a true openside is needed, and soon, as it is a position that needs plenty of caps.
The tight 5 show promise - especially if Corbisiero and Vunipola replace Marler - but they currently lack the ability to bully sides, and have miserably failed in the scrum since the new rules were applied, turning a previous advantage into a massive issue - the scrum reverses were critical on Saturday and Wales were far more streetwise.
The whole side totally failed to play the referee and deal with the crowd on Saturday, which is partly down to a lack of caps, but also a lack of leaders and rugby intelligence, which is a real concern. There is a lot of work to do.
Posted 10:33 18th March 2013
jonesy2 says...
unfazed? what does that even mean? unfazed in relation to what and in what context? the only thing england can play in to win is the six nations and they had it ripped out of their hands on the last day so basically what are england working towards and what is the point of playing and coaching if they are unfazed by losing the biggest thing they play for?
Posted 09:35 18th March 2013
Mace says...
Hahaha even a loss would have seen them claim the 6N and then Wales turned up and creamed them hahaha. That would have brought them back down to earth after beating the AB's thinking they were World Champions. Dreamer's!!!!
Posted 08:08 18th March 2013
deprop says...
I don't think it would have mattered who England picked for this match. I don't even think England have players of the same quality in most positions any way and certainly not a true openside which is a basic essential in modern rugby. A brilliant Wales were unstoppable. A wonderful match to watch. Well done Wales !
Posted 07:56 18th March 2013
TVaddict says...
Worst refereeing in a long time. I'm not watching another match refereed by Walsh, even for neutral games his performances ruin the game to such an extent it's not really rugby any more. Him and Clancy need to go, but of course they won't until they referee South Africa out of an important match and then they'll throw a tantrum and it'll get sorted. At least South Africa manage to get rid of the terrible referees, why can't we?
Posted 06:58 18th March 2013
Sprogrugby says...
Jmanngod, ABlack
As a pom in Australia, ref and ex-front row forward, I tend to agree with you both. I thought Walsh may have seemed harsh, but to me he was really only applying and interpreting the laws as we tend to see them in SH. This is a good thing for quick ball, and I do think this benefited Wales more with their seemingly more natural willingness and ability to attack and counter. To my mind, players like Haskell don't have a place in the future teams, as they carry high penalty counts, they appear to not learn nor adapt to ref interpretations.
I do think some of the scrum penalties were a bit harsh, as there were times when A Jones clearly wrapped Marler under. I also think Cole is generally quite legal. However, it was very clear T Youngs choose to debate with Walsh and if you're stupid enough to continue with that until it annoys the ref, well you deserve to be penalised.
Posted 00:28 18th March 2013
wasey says...
this might finally be the wake up call that lancaster needs, the current back 3 are not international quality at the moment a part from mike brown who has been great throughout the tournament. 2 out of the back 3 should be dropped, brad barrit needs to go, farrell summed up his lack of attacking options well, some good his though. hopefully come the argentina squad we will have lost enough players to the lions that we can try ut players like wade, may, east mond, kvesic, JJ, 36 and the other good youth players that we have that could easily replace ashton and goode. cant wait for freddie burns to ge his shot at fly half.
Posted 23:43 17th March 2013
shoobydo says...
@jmanngod
I disagree that England have slow lumbering forwards.
I thought a fast open game would have suited England more than Wales.
Fair play to Wales though, they kept it tight and waited for the errors and lets be honest, they never looked like losing possession when they kept it in the forwards.
England shouldn't panic over one loss. Remember they were coming off the back of 5 straight wins and are still the top rated side in the NH, so they must be doing something right.
Posted 21:16 17th March 2013
melkdave says...
England will certianly learn from the experiance,and the biggest thing England got wrong.Was not engaging in the breakdown.Wales threw men into the breakdown by the bucket load,and commited loads of offences ,taking players out past the breakdown,in from the side,off their feet,sealing off ect ect.S.Walsh ignorned them all just as in the scrum ,with A.Jones boring,and G.Jenkins not taking a hit..But hey you play to the referee,,and Wales got away with it ,just as Australia did against SA ,and NZ against France at the RWC.England wont stand off any more at the breakdown i feel.That was their biggest mistake.As it handed Wales the momentum ,and they are a momentum and confidance team.Stop them on the gain line you beat them 9 out of 10 times.One thing is for sure it will be a few years before any England fan is going to be happy with S.Walsh refering any England match .Though i dont think any death threats or to much will be said about his performance.Wales played to him and got away with murder, England didnt end of story .
Posted 18:35 17th March 2013
ABlack says...
England's sloppyness at the tackle and breakdown finally got refereed correctly by a ref who is used to S15 and SH rugby where deliberately falling on the wrong side of ruck or tackle area and holding onto tackle players legs to long while he is trying to place the ball etc etc is penalised and has been for 2 seasons.The Eng players just didnt bother adapting to the ref and the rules of the game whereas Wales adapted and asked questions of Walsh then adjusted according to his answers during the game itself.
So it seems the Eng vs AB game was a blip and aberration and the England team isnt as good as they led themselves to beleive.
3-5 Eng players played themselves OUT of the Lions team contention . I can see 14+ Welsh players in the Lions squad 5-6 from Ireland, 4-5 from Scotland and 10 or so England. Whereas before this game I would have thought the Wales & England numbers in reverse.
Posted 18:17 17th March 2013
jmanngod says...
Walsh applied correct laws to the scrum and the breakdown, which frankly are both huge areas of concern with NH refs. NH refs tend to let the tight head hit not straight, and then they penalise the opposition loose-head. You see it all the time ...and it doesn't make sense.
One thing evident in last years England win over the clearly below-par ABs was the slow rucking allowed by the ref. English players kept hands on the ball for longer than sense requires and didn't roll away quickly enough. Walsh is the type of ref who understands the need for quick ruck ball and that will automatically be at odds with a team like England that are always slowing ball down so that their over-sized forwards can lumber to the next breakdown.
No, critcising Walsh is merely a smokescreen for England getting found out.
Posted 18:12 17th March 2013
LondonWasp says...
nor should he be fazed:
"why do we fall Bruce?"
"so we can pick ourselves up again"
Posted 18:08 17th March 2013
rugby_rockstar says...
Kinda hoping Stu will learn a few things too.
This was slow motion car crash, Just watching Lancaster pick the same back three and then throw in serial winger wannabe tom croft. England just played into Wale's hands.
The problem is that england will be forced into changes for the argentina tour but we won't know for ceratin if we've seen that last of Croft, Goode, Ashton and possibily Brad-the-poor-man's-mike-tindall-Barritt until november.
Posted 17:23 17th March 2013
Chubbylugs says...
I'm glad rowntree mentioned the penalty count. I disagree England were trounced in the scrum, they certainly shouldn't have been 7/8 infringements down on Wales in total. I know momentum and penalties go hand in hand, but Walsh seemed to be very pernickety with England and turned a blind eye to adam 45 degree jones and gethin no hit Jenkins. I don't think it would have affected the outcome in the end, but England sacrificed territory and possession at many points of the game as a consequence. It may be cunning on the part of the welsh front row, but international refs should be wise to that!
Posted 15:43 17th March 2013