England

heart_of_oak says...

kybone - those posts are designed to bate the English and not meant to offer any worthwhile criticism. By reacting to those posts, we just encourage more of it. Maybe the posts on their own country pages are rather dull and its more fun to come on to ours and poke fun at us.

What I'd really like to know, and debate with anyone English who gives a damn, is what we do about our back line. I think we've been seriously lacking in flair for a good few years now and I think it'll be tough for an attack coach to change the 'crash bang kick' mentality. Will Greenwood struck me as one of the few back line players we've had in recent times who could produce something unexpected and so I thought he might be useful contributing to the coaching set up. Not as a backs defence coach - Farrell is ok for that. But there's a view that former players don't work out as coaches. Kind of odd, that, I reckon since almost all current coaches were at one point, players. As for our scrum, we are in very good shape in my view. We went to SA and with alot of good players out, replaced by young guys, we did pretty well.

But we really need some back line flair to be able to put up a better showing against the SH nations. That's my view, for what it's worth.

Posted 20:44 03rd July 2012

jehosophat says...

Some of the frothing-at-the-mouth anti-English ranters on here need to take a chill pill or stop the drugs.

At what point did Booth say they were "potential world champions"? Has anyone said that?

All he said was, in his opinion, the side is improving. That seems entirely clear - from 40-10 drubbings at home to SA, to narrow losses and a draw. That is improvement - from a very low start point.

Get a life, people.

Posted 17:54 28th June 2012

heart_of_oak says...

I thought this was supposed to be a post about the positives from the tour and not another tired old anti England tirade. Surely it is fair to point out some positives ?

For me, (feel like I've said this ad nauseam already) there are positives but they're all about the scrum. We had several young inexperienced players in the team but they performed with credit against a very good Bok scrum (despite what kiwilad says about their lacking in intensity) away in South Africa.

Where we fall down is the back line and this is nothing new. We've had a lack of creativity in our back line for years and years.

If we could put out our first choice scrum and ally that to a talented, creative back line, then I believe we could perform much better than we do against the SH nations.

But then the question arises, why can't we produce talented back line players ? The welsh often do and so do the French. So why can't we ?

Posted 12:30 28th June 2012

APV1 says...

@ flyman - they were thanking the crowd for making the effort of coming out in support. It was never a victory lap and, obviously, couldn't be - there was no victory!

@ Melkiwi - it hasn't been bright and we've been in the doldrums (although we did get to the RWC final!). MJ's era was awful too. But now, there's a real sense that things are on the up. SL is picking young lads on form and potential, rather than reputation and experience. That excites me.

@ heart_of_oak - don't get me wrong, I'm never happy with a loss. But I'm a little more circumspect than others, perhaps. I belive that once the match is over you have to review it and learn from it. And part of that learning is understanding how bitter defeat tastes and not wanting that taste again. But Booth isn't daft and he's focusing on the positives. And why not? Light at the end of the tunnel, especially after the RWC 2011? I think so.

Posted 10:54 28th June 2012

sandal says...

This thred is taking a nasty turn.

Yes, some of the SH people here have been a bit ungracious, but I doubt they are simply being anti-English. They are probably just tired of hearing the north talk about how well it is doing. The rugby community in the south wouldn't tolerate such blather about its teams.

In the case of England, I am surprised so many of their fans are pleased. Rebuild or not, England are better resourced than anyone. Conversely, in the south, people might acknowledge that this England team does not have a lot of international experience.

What annoys me most, however, is the arrogance of some fans here -- not rugby arrogance but cultural arrogance.

EnglandForMe and jameslivesinhope, you taunt southerners with the old chestnuts of the chip on the shoulder and the inferiority complex. If I wanted to encounter such an ungrounded/outdated/unpleasant/risible superiority attitude I would go to the Guardian's rugby blog and not this one. Perhaps, EnglandForMe and jameslivesinhope, you would feel more at home there, where you will find plenty of people eager to jump on Johnnie Foreigner whenever he dares to offer a view deemed unflattering to Britain.

p.s. @EnglandForMe

You should get your facts right before you challenge others to do so. The game in question most certainly did not end in a draw.

Posted 07:09 28th June 2012

MacTavish says...

There is one problem, and one problem only. Your Clubs are full of Foreigners. Scour the Super 15 teams (with exception of Rebels cause the Aussies had no depth for a 5th team) and you will find barr a player or two in SA and AUS and NONE in NZ - no imports - NONE. There are some World Class Players in many of the Northern Club sides, who do not come from the country of that club. Just look at the next batch off the line for NZ now... Why can't England, with MORE rugby players than NZ produce these players? Too many spots taken at the top Club Level by foreigners. That is the development issue right there.

Tell me this, you all rave on how good some of these Northen Clubs are, and how you reckon they would compete with the Reds or Crusaders, or even beat them. Take all the imports out, how good would they REALLY be? Sad how many times over the past few years the Player of the English Premiership has been a kiwi. Very Sad.

Posted 20:58 27th June 2012

davodiablo says...

The NH test sides are happy with a draw or a loss where they matched in certain areas because the standard of rugby player in the North is not as good as the South. It's not a dig it's just fact that can be backed up by results and I.R.B.standings over the years.

Toby Booth has every right to be happy because a 3-0 loss would have been no surprise.

Posted 16:16 27th June 2012

EnglandForMe says...

@Melkiwi - Futures been bright since 03 according to England. When are they gonna stop talking about re building and actually start winning

Autumn 2012, count on it.

Posted 14:53 27th June 2012

jamesliveinhope says...

@flyman - glad you brought the lap of honour thing up, a much misunderstood piece of history (England's first foray outside of Twickenham and a thanks to the Northern crowd for their support)

Mind you, history repeating and all that. Seem to recall that was when England had a new coach who was building the nucleus of a new young team. Seem to remember that ended quite well.

Posted 14:51 27th June 2012

chesh10 says...

well at least we've got depth at fullback. Goode looked like a class act on debut and considering the disrupted chopping and changing of the game he played extremely well, think maybe he should get a start as he probably shaded Brown's performance in the 1st test.

I think the 2nd row is a bit of an issue still, although Parling and Lawes could make nice pairing, with some dog from Parling and athleticism from Courtney.

I feel the thing that sets NZ apart from all other sides in terms of their attacking ability (except perhaps for France) is the handling and attacking ability of their forwards. They can execute 3 on 2's and produce quality passes that put the quick guys into space to finish off moves. Often when I see England putting together a move (not all tht often admittedly) we have a forward making a break who isn't going to finish anything off, but when you've got Mealamu or Read drawing and passing to put Dagg through a gap, the liklehood of finishing off is much greater.

A more coherent English attacking vision needs to take this into account, using forwards more intelligently as runners and just having greater depth and pace from the target runners hitting the gainline

Posted 13:56 27th June 2012