Carpelone says...

The ideal Bok squad at the moment would be IMO (without injuries, leaving out the ones who ruled themselves out like JF or FdP):

Beast, BdP, Jannie (not convinced though), Etzebeth, Bresler, Brussouw, Coetzee, Burger (Smith), MacLeod, Lambie, Habana, Steyn (but his belly has to disappear), JP Pietersen (impressive at 13), Hougaard, Petersen/Pienaar.

Maybe not world beaters, but a good team anyway, ready to cope with the 5 second Law.

Posted 10:21 29th August 2012

Carpelone says...

safehands

Your analysis complements my point of view. I agree on what you say. Fortunately, a new wave of talents is emerging, the important is to put them in a position of getting international exposure soon.

Posted 08:39 29th August 2012

safehands says...

Do Bok fans simply not get it? Apart from 1998 and 2009, is there a time when the Boks where as 'dominant' as many Bok fans believe. Even the 2 RWC¿s weren¿t won with teams that were considered dominant...talented and driven yes, but far from the best on display. Other top teams worked out those teams of 98 & 09 very quickly, and the perceived air of superiority was quickly quashed. Predictably followed by the usual blaming of the politics/coaches/referees/rest of the world is conspiring against us/All Blacks are cheats and so it continues on in 2012.

Don¿t get me wrong, I'm not playing down the Boks. There is a large pool of talent in SA Rugby and the potential is there to beat any side on any given day. However, I do believe that the fans in SA build some of the players up to be far better than they really. Nobody can question that Bismarck, Beast, Burger and perhaps Lambie and Etzebeth are world class, but really the rest are average in terms of world stocks.

Also, the perception that SA are physically more dominant than all other nations is ridiculous. There are many nations with men on the rugby pitch to match their size and aggression, particularly in the professional era. And therein is the real issue, this perceived physical prowess that no other team can counter their physicality. This is the pro era chaps and the top teams do counter it. That is when the Boks run out of ideas. There is no FLAIR and invention...just relying on the usual ¿hulk smash¿ mentality which is dumb. As JayStarr rightly points out, the last time the Boks had a bit of invention was when Eddie Jones was there¿.since then¿.nothing.

Also, why is it unacceptable to draw with Argentina in Argentina? They are renowned for big physical forwards (like SA see, so hulk smash fails again) and are passionate men. They were the better team on the day and deserved to win.

Posted 02:25 29th August 2012

pierredelot1 says...

There I was , reading away as you covered all pertinant points only to crash at the final hurdle with " At last Rob Andrew even looks like he's doing something." Now put the cork back in the bottle, have a short nap and start again. Why the hell would he start now.

Posted 23:59 28th August 2012

Herbman says...

SA must be the only unbeaten side in the world this year (apart from NZ of course), not sure why all this speak of "lean years ahead" and "the rest passing them by".

Posted 19:49 28th August 2012

ZombieBites says...

A solution to the HEC issue is to expand the tournie to 24 teams made up of 8 each from the English, French and PRO12 leagues. Split the 24 teams into 8 groups of 4. Top 2 qualify from each group, with the winners playing at home to the runners up on a seeded based system. Whilst this means 1 extra game, it also means that teams are more likely to have interest in the tournie through to the final group rounds.

Posted 19:25 28th August 2012

GCP_JONES says...

As you said in your piece on the heineken its gonna turn a bit nasty when the powers that be sit around the table.I do think the proposal from the english clubs does have some merit.

The Pro 12 certainly does need the teams to step up, the situation with Edinburgh last year says it all really. Also the league has suffered with the loss of so many players from the Welsh teams so anything that makes it more of a spectacle would be welcome. Plus the likes of Connacht, Newport and Zebre would find a more level playing field in the Aimlin?.

But one point against the reform proposal, if the English and French got together would the Avaiva clubs start throwing more strops over the budgets of the French clubs?

Posted 15:31 28th August 2012

bignoel says...

Dear leinster_goy, the arguement is all about money I'm afraid. The English & French clubs, who bring in most of the TV revenue, want more of it.

Being an English supporter, I happen to agree with them, but only to improve the competition. The groups which have Italian clubs in them almost always supply 2 quarter finalists. How is this fair to those clubs that do not have an Italian club in their group? Beaten semi finalists Edinburgh, finished 11th (I think) in their domestic league. That was because they were able to save all of their best players for their European campaign as they automatically qualify for the HC. How is that fair? I doubt they would have progressed so far if their players had to play every week in the RaboDirect.

I am sorry but no Italian clubs would improve the competition. By the same token, they would be more competitive in the 2nd tier European competition.

Anyway, it doesn't matter what I think, it's all about the money. If the English and French do not get their way, we will be watching the Anglo-French cup in 2 years time. That is where all the sponsors will go. The European Cup will cease to exist as it will have no sponsers (Heineken will certainly not be interested).

How about this for a compromise? The top 7 in each league qualify along with the HC finalists from the previous year and the Amlin winners. I would also like to see 4 groups of 6, but I recognise that this is unlikely as it would introduce and extra 2 fixtures into an already overcrowded season. It would improve the competition, however, with a straight 2 from every groupl qualifying for the knock out stages...

Posted 15:03 28th August 2012

JayStarr says...

Agree with your comments on South Africa, except that we did not win the 2007 World Cup by playing such rugby. We had another dimension added to our game thanks to Eddie Jones, and if you watch those games (and our tries) again, you'll see what can happen if the Springboks actually add another dimension to their game.

Unfortunately that dimension departed along with Eddie Jones.

Posted 14:01 28th August 2012

payve says...

I'm fairly on the fence with the HC english/french issue. But I do find myself asking: "Why shouldn't the pro12 compete with one another to get into the higher tier competition?" This is sport after all which is all about competition.

(I am English, but a wasps fan so likely if the english/french unions get their way my team will be unaffected anyway given their form over the last few seasons).

Posted 13:21 28th August 2012