sandal says...

JayStarr,

We can all feel aggrieved that Mark Lawrence did not make the world cup selection but so many Six Nations referees did. I guess it is down to politics. The Six Nations is the biggest voting bloc and it uses its power. (Please, don't anyone lecture me on who chooses the world cup refs -- you know what I mean.)

Not the least of the problems with northern referees is that few of them are match fit. They might be for the all-northern encounters that are their bread and butter, but few are fit enough for games involving Tri Nations teams (South Africa possibly excepted) or the Super XV. Wayne Barnes at the last world cup was a dreadful example. Now compare Barnes with Lawrence!

Some of them also have little actual rugby sense, astonishing though that might sound. They just don't always know where they should be. Watching Barnes (that man again!) impede All Blacks defenders for two of the Wallabies tries this past weekend was infuriating for an ABs fan like myself. And I recall last year an Irish ref for an ABs game (was it Clancy?) coming between halfback and first receiver on half a dozen occasions. How can a ref manage that? Yet someone thought these two men (for starters) competent to referee test matches.

A combination of these two factors is that too few NH referees get into the right place often enough. I recall watching Paul Honiss live at Twickenham as long ago as 1998. I know he wasn't everyone's favourite, but I was amazed to see how much legwork he did. I had never seen any NH referee run as far or work as hard. It was an eye-opener, and nothing has shaken the opinions I started to form that day.

Too many NH refs think the game revolves around them. Literally.

Posted 03:17 30th August 2011

drpkickmedarwin says...

Kidney only seems to know how to win via bludgeoning through the forwards. It worked in his tenure at Munster and for the 2009 Grand Slam with Ireland, but not any more. Ireland are coming up against packs at international level more powerful than them. No semblance of any invention (or coaching of same) in the backs and never has been under his or Alan Gaffney's 'tutelage'. Remember Brian O'Driscoll conceded some years ago that he 'learned nothing' during Kidney's sojourn at Leinster and the Leinster backs did not fire during Gaffney's time there but their play took off when Gaffney was gone and Schmidt arrived.

Posted 19:41 29th August 2011

melkdave says...

N.Owens was chosen ahead of some refs because there has to be a balance between the hemispheres and every team playing if they have qualified refs are entitled to a ref at the tourament even if they havent got qualified refs they will have asst refs running the lines it always has been this way. Have to agree not one of his better games and a little to pedantic blowing up for things whitch didnt stop teams getting ball ect thus stoping them getting any tempo.At every ruck /maul there are countless infringments same at lineouts referees have to use judgement did it stop a team playing or gaining possetion or slow them down if not let play continue and when there is a stoppage have a word with the captains telling them you have seen this and that and if it continues you will have to take action instead of blowing up and penalising at every oppotunity

Posted 18:09 28th August 2011

staph_glorious says...

I have to agree with Jay Starr's assessment of Nigel Owens - poor management throughout, and not for the first time in his career.

Posted 15:07 28th August 2011

JayStarr says...

@ benski: Yes we did! Thanks to the Griquas I quadrupled my money! Oh I love ignorant NH bookies... :P

As for this game - I watched it shortly after the NZ v. AUS game... then I saw this game - and thought "not too bad"... then I saw the highlights of the NZ v. AUS game - and then the difference hit me. Try it!

Even with SA playing like they are at the moment, Irealand stands little chance of bothering them too much... And since England probably has the most mediocre pool of all, I think France - after a far more challenging experience in Pool A - will be a step above. This is what I based my opinion on.

Nigel Owens was poor... watch the game again. He was inconsistent, pedantic and his player management was poor. There were things he should've nipped in the bud, but didn't... there were yellow cards he should've given, but didn't... In this regard he kind of reminded me of Basil Fawlty saying "Right! This is it - I'm warning you! Do this one more time... and... Hey! I'm warning you! If you do this one more time!" He would also be very quick to call non-high tackles high, but then when a real high tackle occurs right in front of his eyes, he doesn't see it. His positional play was not good and he missed a couple of obvious errors just because he was in the wrong place - or trying to get out of the way... And just like pre-Australian Walsh, he gets a personal tone with the players... I hate that. He is not as cool-headed and professional as an international referee should be. This was an easy game to ref, but he struggled to control it. How he was selected ahead of someone like Mark Lawrence for the WC is beyond me...

Posted 14:09 28th August 2011

ronanmeagher says...

I agree with crunchfit, nothing wrong with Tuilagi's tackle on Wallace, his studs got stuck just as Tuilagi hit him, just unfortunate. Think Wallace will be a massive loss, as I don't think Jennings is up to international rugby, for some reason he doesn't seem to produce his leinster form for Ireland. I think Kidney will try to play ferris and SOB in the same backrow, with SOB at 7 which has shown to be a waste of what he brings to the game from No.6.

What the backline are doing no one seems to know. There was zero direction from midfield, no lines being run by the wingers, Earls or even Murphy, although he did try. How Gaffney sleeps at night I don't know, I haven't seen 1 discernable backline move for years, apart from the "Sexton loop" which is a leinster move........ and for the life of me I just don't know why Kidney refuses to give McFadden a go at 12

Posted 11:42 28th August 2011

jehosophat says...

That looked highly average to me - just like the last time Ireland lost to England, England were not playing especially well but Ireland were playing like drains. They spent the whole match trundling slowly into the England fringes and midfield for no result.

Better intensity from England though - even if chances were still missed. Manu has to start for England now surely. And Cueto's lack of pace exposed again - he got an interception in space and easily got caught by the Ireland 9. Just like the time I watched him get overhauled by an Argentine centre at Twickers. Not good for an international winger.

Nigel Owens is a disgrace - I cringe every time he referees England - he blows up the second the ball goes to ground to give penalties against England, then gives a final warning to both sides, then spends much of the second half saying "release green" and "no hands in the ruck green". So the point of the warning was what? And the times he pinged both sides for forward passes and "high tackles" were all patently wrong against both sides.

The SH are much sharper - but can they keep it up without injuries or burnout, and can the NH play themselves into form during the competition? We shall see... Looks like an AB Australia final to me.

Posted 11:00 28th August 2011

blametheref says...

Ireland are not playing with authority and that's a confidence issue. One area we did just about ok was the scrum and we can only pray Ross doesn't get injured. I've serious question marks over Reddan after this game, he seems to playing like a robot and stupidly nearly handed Cueto a try on a plate like he did against South Africa in the autumn. On-pitch game management was the worst I've ever seen for Ireland. This has been a worrying feature of these last 4 matches where Ireland haven't once played what was in front of them. An example of "playing what's in front of you" is the way Leicester play, but you have to have the confidence and "arrogance" to do it. It seems we play from the training field and match plan and as if the coach is in their ear during the match. Going for the corner and throwing the ball long and having no one there at the back is actually what you see at schoolboy level, it nearly cost us a 2nd Tualigi try. If their centre could get to the ball first, there's something radically wrong with our attack line out. It is moments like this that decide matches. Worryingly, that was not the first attack line out that the ball went to no one at the back and opportunity squandered during these 4 matches. If anyone remembers the great Johnson Leicester team, on attack line out the ball would go safely to 2,3 or 4 in the line out and they'd take their chances from there. Ireland seem to forget that they have to secure the ball first and that you can only play risky attacking rugby when you're dominating. Why do moves that have a 40% chance of success when you can do moves that have a 70% chance of success of winning the ball?? At this WC Ireland players need to take the field with 60% less in their heads from the training field, bar the basics, play a simpler and more "what's in front of you style" and start trying to enjoy the game!

Posted 10:41 28th August 2011

Meneer says...

Ireland couldn't score a try even if awarded a penalty try. England couldn't take advantage of poor opposition, with very little or no imagination on the field. Must be the most boring game of rugby I have ever had the misfortune of watching.

All in all, both teams are not good enough to compete for the world title.

Posted 10:13 28th August 2011

nabberuk says...

"sebbb says...

Ireland were utterly abject! Manu Tuilagi should have been penalised umpteen times for his shoulder tackles. Wallace is now out of the World Cup as a result!"

your such an idiot and a soar loser!

Posted 09:08 28th August 2011