Incoming prop: Michael Bent
Ireland's selection of Taranaki prop Michael Bent has raised plenty of eyebrows over the IRFU's failure to produce quality props locally.
The 26-year-old qualifies for Ireland through his grandmother, and is expected to make his Ireland debut during the upcoming November internationals having not played a single game for his club side, Leinster.
Having Bent 'parachuted' into immediately being selected for his country has once again brought under the spotlight the IRB laws regarding qualification to play Test rugby.
The inclusion of Richardt Strauss in the Ireland squad for this month's internationals was also met with some opposition, despite Strauss having played his club rugby in Ireland for three years with Leinster and in that time winning two Heineken Cups.
Speaking to Newstalk's "Off the Ball" programme last week, former Ireland skipper Keith Wood was explicit in his views regarding Bent's selection.
"It can't be, it can't be that easy to play for Ireland as to get onto a flight and fly into the country. It can't be. I find it wrong," said Wood.
"There is something unpalatable about a guy who hasn't played a game in this country to go and play (for Ireland).
"We know he has played 10 or 11 games (for Taranaki) down in New Zealand and apparently he's good, and all that, but this is playing for your country. It isn't playing for Leinster.
"How in the name of Jesus are we getting to the point where a guy flies into the country and he will play for Ireland?"
Wood's view is not uncommon and the fact is the IRFU's production of quality prop forwards over the last decade has been sub-standard.
For years Ireland mercilessly flogged Marcus Horan and John Hayes due to a lack of quality alternatives, the two Munstermen amassing 172 caps between them.
Now the baton has been passed on to Cian Healy and Mike Ross, although age is not on Ross' side at 32. Healy has been an integral part of Leinster and Ireland's success in recent years and aged 25 has potentially a decade of playing time ahead of him, but without regular competition for his place he will simply burn out.
A series of outstanding foreign props have been brought in by the Irish provinces in recent years - John Afoa, BJ Botha, Nathan White, Wian du Preez and Heinke van der Merwe to name a few - with many operating as starters.
Whilst doing so may have increased the chances of success at club level - four of the last five Heineken Cups have been won by Irish sides - the end result is young Irish talents at both loosehead and tighthead have been denied opportunities.
This was highlighted when Ireland took on England at Twickenham during last year's Six Nations championship. With Mike Ross off injured, Tom Court was found wanting on the tighthead side of the scrum - not his specialist position.
If Ross picked up a long-term injury tomorrow, without Bent the talent is arguably not there to replace him.
That is not to say that Ireland are without prospects. Jamie Hagan, Declan Fitzpatrick and David Kilcoyne all have potential but are far from ready for Test rugby.
With Bent available to play immediately, Ireland cannot turn him down. Wood may not be happy with the circumstances, but the outlay on foreign props and failure to nurture strong depth on both sides of the scrum has forced Ireland's hand.
It all means that according to The Irish Times, Bent could become the first man to play for Ireland without playing a provincial game since Brian O'Driscoll.
By Ben Coles
Comments
melkdave says...
@Ferdie
It was Steven Bachop in the 1991 RWC lol .Not only did i get the wrong surname but the wrong RWC lol,age im afraid making me even more senile than usual LOL
Posted 11:11 09th November 2012
melkdave says...
@Ferdie
Thank you for the correction ,but iam sure it was a SH who played for NZ in the early 90s then switched to Samoa to play i a RWC ,his surname definatly started with a S ,but i obvisously cant remember his name lol,ill try and reaseach it and get back to you lol.
Posted 11:05 09th November 2012
Ferdie says...
melkdave - presume you are referring to Rodney So'oialo, in which case you are incorrect; he never played for another country. In the early 90s he would have been 12 yrs old. His family moved to NZ when he was young, went to school in Wellington, played for Wellington & Hurricanes 165 games, NZ 7s, All Blacks 2002-09. Think he is still playing in Japan.
Unsure who may have caused any 'uproar'?
Who could you be referring to - perhaps Michael Jones? born in Auckland NZ, he played once for Samoa 1986 (qualified through one parent) and later for ABs, at that time eligibility rules were different to what we have today. No uproar there.
Posted 23:24 08th November 2012
Ramage says...
@99call I and many others would be interested to see the list of the players that you believe to have been poched by NZ. It is very easy to make these claims now it is time to back them up. I await the list with interest.
Posted 15:15 08th November 2012
melkdave says...
@Jamesliveinhope
Thank you its apprecited,and your right im afraid the UK situation does throw alot of spanners into the works,when it comes to natiionality,concerning rugby players as there is no England Wales ,Scotland ,or NI Ireland recognised as soverigen states ,only the UK or Great Britain are recognised for our little island by the international community ie UN,USA China ect ect.As was shown by the recent olympic games where we had to compete as team GB.The Ireland situation comes from the old empire days im afraid ,Lets not forget the present 6Ns grew out of the old 4Ns which was an entirely British affaire.When Ireland was given independance ,it was just easier for the rugby authorities at the time ,to keep the old empire 4Ns qualifications ,whitch is why Ulster born players can play for Ireland .Now transport betwen countries takes just hours not days or weeks or months ,and globalisation has ment people traval more and settle in different countries for work,or other reasons .I do feel the present IRB regulations on players playing for a country not of their birth ,ae the best they can be atm.Lets not forget that a player could play for one country ,then annother quite legally before 1997,as So'oielo did ,he played for NZ in the early 90s then played for Samoa in 95s RWC i think .It was the uproar from this that made the IRB implement the present regulations ,ie a blood tie to the 2nd genaration ,or resiadancy for 3 yrs ,without having played a A leval game against annothrer A leval or test side or Test leval game for annother country.Myself i feel the residancy should be for 5 yrs ,but then im not on the IRB to argue that lol.As for dependacies ie like the Falklands ,they are under international law part of thehost country .France has quite a few ,as does the UK ie Falkland and some Pacific islands think we may have transfered them to NZ or Australia ?
Posted 11:39 08th November 2012
jamesliveinhope says...
thanks @melkdave I did leap to your defence in a similar vein yesterday but for some reason PR wouldn't accept it (I may have sworn).
You challenge the wider issue of nationality too - Ulster, Wales and Scotland are technically not states recognised in their own right - also not sure about one or two PI dependencies either. How would that be managed given the (fairly rich) history of players playing over borders (Dewi Morris, Rupert Moon, Alex Cuthbert, Colin Charvis, Simon Geoghan are names I can think of without having to Google it?
Posted 09:44 08th November 2012
fattysock says...
@99Call
Really? The Kiwis are the worst at poaching players? Name one. Just ONE in the current squad who wasn't born in NZ, or grew up in NZ.
Heck, why don't you try and name one from the past 10 years. I can think of one player, off the top of my head, but I'm not sure if he was well known enough for you to have even heard of him..
Posted 14:10 07th November 2012
melkdave says...
@ToALL
My comment about Ulster born players ,was in response to many posts ,from people from Itrland and around the world saying players should only play for their country of birth.It was to show those posters more than anything else ,that if it was made a IRB regulation.Then TECHNICALLY no Ulster born player could play for Ireland.As you cant have one rule for all and then make an exception.Im well aware its an all Ireland team,but that wouldnt be possible if only play for your country of birth was adopted .Hope that clears that up .
@Crunchfit
Yes ive made some negative posts about the IRFU ,not Ireland .The IRFU have for the most part had their eyes firmily fixed on HC glory,and not the national team .You say some of their policyies have hampered the clubs ,on that i strongly disagree.though their interferance of where players play is..But then they own the clubs so are entitled.,The player welfare programme where the elite irish players are rested enmass,does enssue they are fresher come the bussiness end of the season ,when titles are decided.It does however ensure,that the national side is shall we say undercooked for the aurtum internationals,where they have had at most only 4-5 games,they are then rested again and again only play annother 2-3 games before the 6Ns ,so again are most probily undercooked.But they do then go on to play most of the club league games and any HC to the end of the season ,when it matters.If that doesnt say the IRFU have their eyes set on HC glory ,than nothing will.We all know the 2nd string club sides can hold their own in the Pro12 and that it is rather irrevalent except at the bussiness end of the season when the elite irish players actualy play all the league games.My gripe isnt with the irish clubs or supporters ,but with the IRFU for being myopic in their outlook ,Ireland should do alot better than they do in internationals.
Posted 13:11 07th November 2012
dezz says...
@expat2. The Beast springs to mind.
Posted 07:08 07th November 2012
ABlack says...
Michael has BENT the rules and thats not fair.....
Posted 00:36 07th November 2012
Honestpom says...
Ireland have not possesed a true international standard prop ( if you count actual scrummaging as being their main reason for being on the pitch ) since Peter Clohessy. Who can blame them for picking Bent, why look a gift horse in the mouth. Why does anyone have a problem if his Grandmother is Irish. Its the 3 year residency ruling that i think is totally wrong ( Hape, Botha, Fourie etc, etc ) . Good luck to Mr. Bent, Ireland needs you.
Posted 20:26 06th November 2012
crunchfit says...
@melkdave
You didn't respond to my previous comment. You mentioned that the IRFU are only interested in HCup success when this is not true at all. It is well known that this is not true. Most of their actions have actually hindered the operation of the clubs. There have been plenty of comments here referencing this. You often make negative comments on Irish related articles so I'd be interested on the rationale behind your comment.
Posted 19:42 06th November 2012
eddie_the_eagle says...
melkdave, just don't post that some of your best friends are Irish, alright? You've already embarrassed yourself enough for one article. Most Ulster players would see themselves as British yet they have defied threats, terrorism and the worst of the troubles to play in Lansdowne road as part of an all-Ireland institution, and they are respected for that. The Ireland rugby team is a conglomerate unique in the world of rugby and has been a beacon of friendship and partnership across the border that has been a shining example for the 2 communities on the island. Even if we have a completely crap anthem as a result.
Posted 19:24 06th November 2012
eddie_the_eagle says...
madraglas - I don't agree at all that the 1.5m rule doesn't protect weak scrummagers. I've watched many disastrous packs at age grade (U14, U15) get their own ball back 100% of the time because no sooner does the scrum stat to move backwards than the referee is shouting to hold the push and presto they have all the time in the world to get the ball out. This largely depends on the tolerance for crooked feeds which gets the ball quickly behind the front row.
Posted 19:06 06th November 2012
APV1 says...
@ 99call - your comment about the English players is ill-informed at best. I'll accept Hape (and I never agreed with him being eligible) but your other examples are nonsense. I can't be bothered to correct you, but take it from me, you're wrong. Or don't, but you're still wrong.
@ madraglas - you say, "It is all very well to blame the IRFU, however other than SA, NZ, Aus and Arg all other nations have foreigners amongst their ranks." All of those countries do or have done too. I appreciate your point, but factually you are incorrect.
Nothing like a pedant is there..?!
@ expat2 - For the delightful politics and low crime rate, of course!
;-)
Posted 18:05 06th November 2012
Willy says...
@quin_dub
U21's have full Scrummaging as do Senior and J1, J2 down plays the variartion as this is deemed social rugby level. Players at J2 level down aren't going to make it as pro's so don't quite get your point.
As I said below our props need to stay in our acedemy's longer to allow them time to develop.
Posted 17:27 06th November 2012
quin_dub says...
@ Willy...
The Extra bonus we have in Ireland is that even after U19 there's no pushing in the scrum at Adult level other than 1st/2nd team so we have no culture of scrummaging anymore... hence nobody wants to be a prop...
Posted 14:58 06th November 2012
99call says...
Firstly Ferdie, my bad I got that one wrong about Marsh I did think he was an All Black but obviously not, but I do think actually having blood links to a country is better than residency, but sticking to the facts Bent is allowed to play for Ireland so lets see how good he is, no country can win in the modern era without a good tighthead so if we have 2 now with him and Ross then that will give the other young Ireland lads a chance to develop so theyll be ready when Ross hangs up his boots
Secondly jamesliveinhope central contracting will always mean that players who play outside of Ireland will struggle to get into the side as the IRFU want to be able to control the number of games etc that their players play in which is not a bad thing. Geordan Murphy was a victim of Eddie Osullivans style of play not the point of he played in England, Eddie wanted a certain type of 15 with a more defensive mentality which was better suited to Girvan Dempsey so Geordie missed out
Posted 14:50 06th November 2012
99call says...
I do have to make one comment on the contents of the article above, its the part that referes to Tom Court being found wanting in the England match last 6 nations.
Its funny how the first few scrums he was involved in went absolutley fine then after half time Dylan "pop-up" Hartley went back to the Saints way of scrummaging were he pops straight out and the loose head in this case Corbisiero drove straight across the scrum so Court had no where to go which everyone on the field and in the stands and the english fans in the pub I was watching saw as totally illegal but good old Nigel Owens was happy to let go.
Court isnt the best tighthead in the world not even I would argue that but no one is if the oppo is allowed to scrummage illegally
Posted 13:38 06th November 2012
Ferdie says...
99call says...Tony Marsh was even an all black before he played for France
Stick with facts - Tony Marsh was never an All Black, not even close as I recall - played for Blues and Crusaders, then qualified for France through the 3 year residency criteria, not grandparenting.
Posted 12:40 06th November 2012