BokAvenger says...

@APV1: Obviously you interpret things the way you prefer to interpret them. Regarding how the term Coconut and how it is used in SA: Like I said it is a term commonly used by black South Africans who have grown up in the township, which has a unique culture and attitude, to describe their fellow black South Africans that have moved to the suburbs and whom THEY now deem to have been trying to act too white. (To put it in terms you might understand: imagine someone who was born and raised on the streets of Harlem or Compton who suddenly moves to Beverly Hills or the Upper East side and tires a little too hard to hide their roots). In SA the term Coconut is not generally regarded as offensive and is only mildly pejorative - in fact there is a TV series in SA called "The Coconuts" that is quite popular among all races. Google it and see for yourself. But to address your question of what I mean by a black person who is deemed by their fellow black people to bee acting too white. Well, I am astounded that you find this difficult to understand. You might not realise it but black SA have a proud history and culture and their own languages (Zulu, Sotho, Xhosa, Pedi, Tswana, Tsonga) to name but a few. The township also has it's own unique cultural characteristics that differ from rural SA and the suburbs. So imagine a black SA guy who grows up in the township speaking Zulu, watching and playing soccer, eating sadza and nyama, listening to kwaito or kwela music who suddenly moves to the suburbs and starts speaking English with what is perceived to be a "white" Safffa accent, starts playing cricket and rugby instead of soccer, starts eating sushi and listening to the Parlotones...well he might get ragged by his mates back home. Amazing to me that you find this difficult to comprehend. It's a phenomenon that plays itself the world over (Ocker Aussie trying to be posh). Capiche?

Posted 17:32 25th April 2012

Dingbat32 says...

@fattysock - "Kafer tackle" made me lmao. Very funny, but it is a stretch to say that it makes a point.

If you expanded this argument to include cockney rhyming slang then every commentator would probably be racist.

That said, can anyone beat "Kafer tackle"?

Posted 11:59 25th April 2012

APV1 says...

@ BokAvenger - I don't call people from SA "yarpies". Idiots, perhaps, but that's just reserved for those who are.

And there's something else which I find uncomfortable. It's this weird concept of, "a black person who thinks and behaves like a white person". What does that mean, exactly? How do white people behave? All the same? No, of course not. So what exactly does a person mean when they suggest that someone is, "a black person who thinks and behaves like a white person"? Seriously, with no agenda or righteous cause - what the heck does it mean?

@ Ramage - thank you. As usual, more elloquently put and much clearer.

@ Sasquatch - you don't exist, so why am I answering? Anyway, I've not heard the word, but I'm sure I've been called worse. Google suggests that it means box or similar. I suspect there's a more derogatory slant to it when used as a name, but there you go. I might suggest that if you want someone to know what you mean don't use a colloquialism, as it will probably be lost in translation.

@ fattysock - brilliantly explained. Thank you.

I'll break it down for you:

I didn't know the expression, either as an offensive term for a Pacific islander, or as, "a black person who thinks and behaves like a white person".

BS possibly did and certainly should have, otherwise he shouldn't have used it.

It is offensive and, therefore, he should be reprimanded.

BS may or may not be racist - I have no idea. But I believe he knowingly - in the heat of the moment - used a racist term (please note the "I believe" bit of that statement).

There are far too many rubbish commentators ruining matches for all of us.

It appears that I am a box, or other such container or vessel. I might be offended. But I'm not.

And even if I were, I refer you to 3:30 - http://tiny.cc/fbo9cw

Am I on a crusade? No. Do I find racism abhorent? Yes. Do I get too wound up? Definitely.

Posted 10:51 25th April 2012

isthatrightref says...

@ cuw31... I actually said that an expat saffa told me it was a reference to knocking coconuts out of a tree - in some parts of the world they climb the tree & have at the nuts with a club or even a bush knife - which is more plausible than the coconut shy theory but still pretty tenuous imo.

Posted 07:56 25th April 2012

fattysock says...

Seems to be a lot of confusion about what the term "coconut" actually means (in NZ).

It's a derogatory phrase for Pacific Islanders. Kinda like (and please forgive me for saying these things) "Chinky" for someone from China or something like "towelhead" for someone from Afghanistan. It is NOT a nice thing to call someone, although it does fall short of calling someone a n***er. In NZ, if you called a Pacific Islander that, and they smacked you over, then I don't think anyone would be on your side in the fight.

However, the term can also be used for your head... that is definitely true. We tend not to do it in NZ too much, as it's just not worth it (in case someone mishears and gets upset). Nut is much more commonly used.

As for Skinstad, I find it a little too convenient that he used to descibe the action of a player of Pacific Island decent, and he's used it as an adjective. If he'd said "Wow, that tackle was aimed at Mvovo's coconut" that would be one thing... but to say "That was a coconut tackle" is quite telling. Oh, and the coconut-shy explanation? You've got to be kidding... have you all forgotten that even Skinstad didn't use that as an excuse... so how can you use that as a defense for him????

SOme here have suggested that that he shouldn't be required to know what it meant as it's not his country. I tend to disagree - would it be OK for me (a Kiwi) to commentate on a South African game and describe something as "Kafer tackle" - when really I was refering to the tackling style of former Wallaby Rod Kafer? No - because I'd be expected to know that that word (albeit spelt and pronounced slightly differently) is not appropriate.

I don't think he's a racist, btw... but I also don't think he is clear of blame. Someone at ESPN got fired for titling an article "A chink in the armor" after Jeremy Lin played badly and the Nicks lost... same here I feel.

Posted 18:52 24th April 2012

Sasquatch says...

I've known Bob Skinstad since high school days at Hilton College and believe me the man is not racist. I heard the comment and I thought nothing of it; in South Africa, "coconut" is a term used to describe a black person who thinks and behaves like a white person; but before you all start crying foul, that explanation is from a black mate of mine. If you're interested in the South African point of view then check: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/Retief-quick-to-back-Skinstad-20120424.

Posted 18:01 24th April 2012

mfair says...

@Dingbat32

Totally agree. IMHO Skinstad was so OBVIOUSLY referring to a "head" tackle. I've heard people's heads being referred to as their coconuts before.

It's unfortunate that it has another meaning in ANOTHER country and it is quite believable (even likely) that Skinstad had no idea of this term. I've never heard this form of reference and I've traveled to all the continents around the world.

This is so so pathetic. Skinstad apologised for his ignorance and that should be it. I hate his commentary with a vengeance but that's not the point. Let's move on and look forward to the next super rugby weekend!!!

@APV1 - I think you really have no way to say Skinstad knew what the term meant. I've never heard of coconut referring to "islanders" and you've never heard of coconut referring to "head". It seems that you and Skinstad have now both learnt something new :-).

Posted 15:58 24th April 2012

FoxandHound says...

PSS. They should get rid of BS. No one wants to listen to his lisp and maybe it will teach him to keep his tongue where it belongs

Posted 15:04 24th April 2012

FoxandHound says...

Just help me out here cause I am known for being a bit slow sometimes. Amongst all the known racial slurs we are now also not allowed to call someone a coconut or an islander in case we offend some ¿pacific islander ¿ somewhere in NZ (note they call themselves islanders but we are not allowed because we are not islanders) Where are we going with this race card thing. So as a "whitey" you are not allowed to insult any person that is not the some color as you unless you are a racist

PS. I am very disappointed that I may not call someone a coconut cause now I will have to think of a new word to call my little brother when next he does something stupid.

Posted 14:55 24th April 2012

Dingbat32 says...

I cant believe this coconut nonsense - I had to check it wasnt April 1st.

I think that the obvious meaning was coconut = head. Any other meaning is totally obscure, and dragged out to try and make an issue. Probably only ever became an issue because a South African said it, so there was a presumption that it must have been racist. Isn't that racism?

Posted 11:49 24th April 2012