Steve Walsh: Blamed for defeat
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England forwards coach Graham Rowntree is to seek "clarification" from the IRB regarding the performance of referee Steve Walsh in Saturday's 30-3 defeat by Wales.
Rowntree - a former international prop - was especially annoyed by the way in which Walsh controlled the breakdown and the scrum.
Wales dominated both areas as they surged to a record win over England that saw them retain the Six Nations title and deny their arch-rivals a Grand Slam at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium.
England were repeatedly penalised at the scrum and Rowntree's mood is unlikely to be improved by reports suggesting Wales players later privately admitted they had collapsed the set-piece on six occasions.
And the Red Rose brigade also had complaints about the legality of the turnover that led to the first of two second-half tries for Wales' Alex Cuthbert -- an incident England head coach Stuart Lancaster labelled the "tipping point" of the match.
Rowntree indicated the way in which Walsh oversaw the title-decider was at variance with what the referee had told him during the pre-match meeting and he would now be seeking an explanation from Joel Jutge, the French former Test referee who is now the IRB's referees' chief.
"I sat up on Saturday night and watched the game again forensically," said Rowntree.
"I'm annoyed at a lot of the outcomes and I will be speaking to the IRB to get some clarification about it.
"With Joel Jutge now in charge of the IRB referees, he's very keen for an open forum and a very honest review process from the coaches and the referees.
"In most of the games I've submitted glowing reports on referees but on this occasion we were frustrated by a lot of the outcomes and I will be speaking to Joel to get some clarification (about the) breakdown and scrum.
"I spoke to Steve after the game. We both agreed that we would go away and have a look at the game again. Having watched it, I need clarification.
"A lot of those decisions were big, game momentum-changing decisions."
Some pundits criticised England for being insufficiently "streetwise" and not adapting quickly to Walsh's interpretations at the scrum where Wales props Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones had a field day.
However, Rowntree - who has repeatedly insisted he is not in the business of coaching any scrum 'tricks' - said: "I don't buy this whole 'streetwise' thing.
"We just want a clean outcome at the scrum, we don't practice anything different," he added.
There were widespread concerns voiced by England fans, if not team management, when they saw Walsh had been appointed to Saturday's key fixture because of his previous outings with England that included a touchline row with fitness coach Dave Redddin at the 2003 World Cup.
New Zealand-born Walsh, 40 was sacked by the New Zealand Rugby Union in 2009 following his drunken arrival at a refereeing conference.
But he moved to Sydney where, having rebuilt his life, he resumed full-time refereeing under the banner of the Australian Rugby Union in 2011, taking charge of England's 19-12 World Cup quarter-final defeat by France in Auckland in October that year.
Comments
Ramage says...
There is a lot of bleating and whining going on but what is new when it comes to Walsh and England. However some mighty allegations have been made and me thinks its a further chapter in the history between Walsh and England. So the ball is now in Mr Jutge's corner. So lets see what happens. Allegations have been made and a challenge put down. This has been made in public and is either believed or not depending who you are supporting. This is serious because an English official has made serious allegations about the referee in public and in many ways is undermining that referee. The reply should also be in public. If Steve Walsh was incorrect then he needs to be made aware of it so he can sort out his style. If it was he probably has already been told. If not and the referees are happpy with his interpretations then the English management need to apologise and Rowntree fined for bringing the game into disrepute. There is a way of doing this write and ask for the interpretations to be clarified and make no comment to the press or beef it up as the English management have done by going and whining to the press so all the jackels can be let free.
As for the final two paragraphs written by Planet Rugby this is another example of gutter journalism at its best and I would suggest Mr Editor did not need to be written. Still we come to expect it from sad journalists who have to add some spice, as they see it, to keep the cauldron boiling. I suppose now it is Lazarus instead of Steve. Rather than sneering at him, as this sad journalist does, he should be commended for changing his life and moving forward.
Posted 11:07 20th March 2013
keste03 says...
@jappers1983
"Nothing wrong with the turnover prior to the try, the ball was there to be won, walsh hadnt called 'hands away', and he was on his feet" - the issue is not whether or not the player was on his feet, but, whether or not, he came through the gate - and that will always be up to interpretation by the ref; however, that was the widest gate in international rugby to date ;) .
Posted 10:51 20th March 2013
7redcards says...
I thought the scrum contest was really interesting, on the one hand a young inexperienced front row chomping at the bit and on the other a front row bristling with caps and big match experience. In the build up to the game I felt if the Welsh could withstand the physical onslaught that the English would bring then they would come out on top. For me the surprising thing was that right from the off the first engagement the Welsh dominated, physically, mentally and tactically. Yes they scrummed better, they played the ref better and they ruthlessly exploited weaker opposition. I guess what GR wants to understand is how the ref saw things and why he came to the decisions he did, this is important in building experience for the coaches and players in the event that they encounter this type of interpretation of the laws in the future. I don't believe he is saying the ref cost us the game, Wales were by far the better side on the day, in my opinion the ref actually had a good game.
Posted 10:46 20th March 2013
swerv says...
They have been looking at the video for 5 days to see if they can pin the blame on someone else, should be some interesting discussions between Rowntree and Howley when they get down to Oz...
Posted 10:05 20th March 2013
pembs says...
It could not possibly be the coaches or players fault. It therefore must be the refs fault. I mean it was a very close game and Wales only won by a point or 2.......
Posted 09:59 20th March 2013
ArmchairGeneral says...
Rowntree is being entirely professional about his questions and the timing of his enquiry. I'm suprised by the reaction. No one is saying the result is in question and he's not pointing fingers at players. Pitty it made the press but its no pitch side rant.
Posted 09:54 20th March 2013
cymruambyth says...
it was good to see a referee with a strict approach to clearing the tackler away - England have been pretty good at "playing" this area for a while now! Scrum IS a farce, but to be honest it slowed the game down somewhat on Saturday... if there had been quick, hassle-free scrums, we would have scored 40, not 30
Posted 09:53 20th March 2013
lawynd says...
Fair enough Graham, you don't understand why certain decisions were given, or not given as the case may be. I too am perplexed at quite a few of the scrum calls and can't fathom why Walsh or his assistants missed them, and with the benefit of television know that the turnover was illegal (just because the referee hasn't called "Hands away!" doesn't make it legal, jappers1983 you plank!), but why go public with this? If there's a forum for discussion and you want to find out what went wrong and why then brilliant, have at it. But don't court the press with it because it just makes us look like bad losers.
As for the rest of you belly-aching about the decisions England got for them through the tournament, did you ever stop to consider that queries may have been made behind closed doors? No, I thought not. Morons.
Posted 09:46 20th March 2013
DanBach says...
Rugby is a complex game and refereeing decisions or interpretations can always be argued or debated.
If it wasn't for some dodgy decisions during Wales' Summer tests against the Aussies, their much highlighted bad run of form could have been a different story.
Although England are doing their best to say that they are enquiring about Walsh's performance through discreet and proper means, the whiff of sour grapes is unmistakeable.
Bottom line is - YOUR BOYS TOOK ONE HELL OF A BEATING!
Posted 09:39 20th March 2013
PontySurrey says...
PS. For those deluded England fans who think that everything is OK and the Wales hammering was down to a dodgy referee then just read Mike Gibson's article on this site for an informed analysis about why England lost.
Posted 09:26 20th March 2013
99call says...
OH come on..... this comes from the team who are the masters of illiegal scrummaging youve got to be kidding me
What about the england/ ireland match last year when in every scrum in the second half Hartley popped straight out to make sure no one was watching while the Corbisiero drove straight across at the hooker, and before you call sour grapes as Im an irishman I watched that game with a group of friends 4 of which are english and even they said it was illegal so its not just me
Is this what we're going to expect from the lions coaches... i want to complain as they cheated better than us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Posted 09:24 20th March 2013
chubbylugs says...
does anyone know who is refereeing the british lions games yet? - this may be more about the lions than england.
after all, we will be playing the masters at non-scrummaging!
Posted 09:20 20th March 2013
IronManI441 says...
Also one last point, Gethin Jenkins was average. Didn't really impress me, had a couple good scrums but was absent in the loose, however Adam Jones is just so experienced, so classy, and just a world class prop.
Posted 09:18 20th March 2013
IronManI441 says...
Rowntree shouldn't have made this comment, as it looks like an excuse and to be honest the concerns about the turnover... its one turnover in a whole game and refs will miss it occasionally and you just have to put yourself in a position where it doesn't cost you too badly.
However on the scrum point, again rowntree shouldnt have said anything, but Walsh was terrible. He didn't move around the scrum enough, and the "streetwise" comments are rubbish. The Welsh cheated better. Cheating is part of the scrum, and until we have some serious refereeing changes it will continue to be. The Welsh took advantage of a poor referee and England didn't deal well with it. However the problem was that England couldn't have then just mimed the same tactics as Walsh at that point was flat out confrontational with the English pack and Tom Youngs in particular (just look at his petty stand still comments and glaring, the man is a tool). All England can do is hope for a better ref and recognise that if he is rubbish, you need to take advantage of that quickly before being made to look he part of the cheater.
Also I think the world can see by his new tattoos and slicked back hair and confrontational style, Walsh thinks he is the star of the show. NZ sacked him, he is complained about in Australia, why the hell is he running the 6N's decider?
Posted 09:16 20th March 2013
jamesliveinhope says...
right - the game is gone, England need to get over it.
That doesn't mean that Rowntree doesn't have an obligation to report his concerns through the appropriate channels - (should note that this seems to be an agency press release not PR editorial) and if asked about it in the media should be expected to give an honest response.
Wales needed to win by 8 clear points to win the championship and I suspect that England had gone there with the realistic ambition of merely protecting that margin.
So the second that the lead went beyond that margin, England needed to go looking for points rather than waiting for them which in most people's eyes would be considered a momentum shift.
Probably the wrong tactics, Wales were outstanding and deserved winners but the scrum had been identified as a key area and England fell foul too many decisions, on some occasions unfairly.
Scott Johnson has made a similar complaint to Rowntree's, PR's latest Loose Pass article also criticised the refereeing of the scrum in this game and there is a general consensus that there is a major problem with the scrums generally in the sport.
I would also add that Wasps, (the common coaching denominator with Wales) had a reputation for cynical play at scrum time in Engkland with Gatland even admitting about a coaching discussion in RWC about bringing a prop off "injured" having lost parity against France.
I agree that there is an element of playing the ref in the sport but, with everyone agreeing that scrums are a problem, to hear of players admitting to deliberately collapsing is pretty disappointing.
England's previous management admitted to cheating being part of the game and went a season being penalised off the park. If the Welsh really have admitted to skullduggery then perhaps Gatland might want to look elsewhere for his Lions front row for fear of the same.
Posted 09:15 20th March 2013
Startledwombat says...
By Rowntree's own comments about normally putting in "glowing reports" I can only assume he gave a glowing report of the ref who missed the notorious forward pass that led to Fofana's try and a victory to England.
It's extraordinary I know, but I am forced to the conclusion that in the senior ranks of England's test rugby set-up, there might be found a hypocrite.
I am no fan of Steve Walsh; no follower of Otago rugby could be. But in the Wales/ England game he appears to have applied the ruck and tackle rules as they ought to be.
Posted 09:13 20th March 2013
PontySurrey says...
When the economy goes wrong the English government blame the Europeans. When their cricket team fails they blame their South African players. When the football team fails they blame all the foreigners in the premier league. So no surprise really that when their rugby team get thrashed they blame the Johny Foreigner referee.
Posted 09:13 20th March 2013
j_hdk says...
This is a professional game, it is only right that an open audit of the referring of this match and all professional matches should be carried out.It is the only way to improve consistency and competence.
Posted 09:12 20th March 2013
chubbylugs says...
i would cite a few "mistakes" on top of the scrum farce
tipuric should have been carded for taking out goode in the first half, amazed he hasnt been cited (followed through after goode kicked clear - they had a little tussle after)
tipuric as tackler entering the ruck from the side when a ruck had formed, walsh said play on
2 minutes late robshaw was the sole player contesting the ball at a tackle for several seconds (not ruck) - penalty wales
second half, mike brown did exactly what tipuric did in the first half ie stand up after making a tackle and got penalised for side entry
the turnover for the 1st try should have definitely been an england penalty
in walsh's defense the game did flow especially in the first half, so you could argue that he created a spectacle. it was however in such contrast to previous games that you can understand why were all confused with the interpretations.
i always think that as long as referee's are consistent with decisions both ways, you know where you stand, so thats the fundamental issue, particularly at scrums
the outcome probably wouldnt have been different, but that said you lose 40+ metres everytime a decison goes the other way, it significantly changes the direction and momentum of a game
Posted 09:10 20th March 2013
mayhem says...
@melkdave,
take up football you moaning windbag! Are you embarrassed by your post? You should be. Regarding scrum, I like many others in Wales always listen to Brian Moores take on all things front row, with good reason! The man saw a good contest that Wales won. Given his experience in relation to yours, im fine with the outcome. :)
Posted 09:02 20th March 2013