Steve Walsh: Blamed for defeat
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England forwards coach Graham Rowntree is to seek "clarification" from the IRB regarding the performance of referee Steve Walsh in Saturday's 30-3 defeat by Wales.
Rowntree - a former international prop - was especially annoyed by the way in which Walsh controlled the breakdown and the scrum.
Wales dominated both areas as they surged to a record win over England that saw them retain the Six Nations title and deny their arch-rivals a Grand Slam at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium.
England were repeatedly penalised at the scrum and Rowntree's mood is unlikely to be improved by reports suggesting Wales players later privately admitted they had collapsed the set-piece on six occasions.
And the Red Rose brigade also had complaints about the legality of the turnover that led to the first of two second-half tries for Wales' Alex Cuthbert -- an incident England head coach Stuart Lancaster labelled the "tipping point" of the match.
Rowntree indicated the way in which Walsh oversaw the title-decider was at variance with what the referee had told him during the pre-match meeting and he would now be seeking an explanation from Joel Jutge, the French former Test referee who is now the IRB's referees' chief.
"I sat up on Saturday night and watched the game again forensically," said Rowntree.
"I'm annoyed at a lot of the outcomes and I will be speaking to the IRB to get some clarification about it.
"With Joel Jutge now in charge of the IRB referees, he's very keen for an open forum and a very honest review process from the coaches and the referees.
"In most of the games I've submitted glowing reports on referees but on this occasion we were frustrated by a lot of the outcomes and I will be speaking to Joel to get some clarification (about the) breakdown and scrum.
"I spoke to Steve after the game. We both agreed that we would go away and have a look at the game again. Having watched it, I need clarification.
"A lot of those decisions were big, game momentum-changing decisions."
Some pundits criticised England for being insufficiently "streetwise" and not adapting quickly to Walsh's interpretations at the scrum where Wales props Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones had a field day.
However, Rowntree - who has repeatedly insisted he is not in the business of coaching any scrum 'tricks' - said: "I don't buy this whole 'streetwise' thing.
"We just want a clean outcome at the scrum, we don't practice anything different," he added.
There were widespread concerns voiced by England fans, if not team management, when they saw Walsh had been appointed to Saturday's key fixture because of his previous outings with England that included a touchline row with fitness coach Dave Redddin at the 2003 World Cup.
New Zealand-born Walsh, 40 was sacked by the New Zealand Rugby Union in 2009 following his drunken arrival at a refereeing conference.
But he moved to Sydney where, having rebuilt his life, he resumed full-time refereeing under the banner of the Australian Rugby Union in 2011, taking charge of England's 19-12 World Cup quarter-final defeat by France in Auckland in October that year.
Comments
sirtidychris says...
spot on from rowntree
All the anti-english (everyone in the rugby world who isn't english) will use this as an excuse to bash england and call them arrogant etc but there was no way england were dominated in every scrum however every call went against us.
Rowntree needs to understand the thought process so he can not let this happen again especially when we are being penalised for doing nothing wrong. The BBC commentator summed it up perfectly during the match saying that whatever happens in the scrums from now on Walsh has decided its englands fault.
We need an explanation, this isn't sour grapes or a witch hunt, rowntree has been very measured with his comments, we just need to understand what was going on in walshs mind that when wales were going to ground england were penalised.
Is gethin jenkins a better scrummager than dan cole.....no way....is gethin jenkins better at going to ground when he knows the ref will always call it in wales's favour...hell yes.
By the way wales deserved the win, they were immense, but walsh should enlighten us on his decisions...only fair
Posted 16:04 20th March 2013
lawynd says...
@rugbylover - I'm confused...what are you referring to?
Posted 15:52 20th March 2013
jamesliveinhope says...
@jappers1983 not going to comment on the incident because I don't recall it and can't be bothered to look again (too painful).
But "hands away" has no value in the laws of the game. The referee applies a judgement on the materiality of an act, if hands are in the ruck but are not preventing access to the ball he will call "hands away" or similar and penalise a player if he fails to follow that instruction instruction. If hands are in the ruck and clearly preventing access to the ball there will be no warning.
Its the same with the referee's marking of the defensive offside line at the breakdown. He doesn't have to do it, it just represents good game management and, if an offside player interferes with play before the line is marked - he will still be pinged for offside.
Posted 15:03 20th March 2013
rugbylover says...
Oh come now Lawynd. You're usually a pretty sensible chap. ¿........may have been made..........¿ ?
And did those feet..............?
Who can say?
Posted 14:34 20th March 2013
rugbylover says...
Not only chokers, but also whingers. Sigh.
Posted 14:27 20th March 2013
RugbyNut says...
Basically England should have won the game by playing better rugby - but didn't. That doesn't excuse the fact that Walsh shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an England game as he is not just biased but arrives with malice aforethought, the opposite of good refereeing! Anyway, someone who is always checking out his picture on the big screen shouldn't be doing the refs job (cross reference Owens!) - be a waterboy or something useful!
Posted 14:03 20th March 2013
rugbydaft says...
Look so much whinging is rubbish .... The English scrum got stuffed end of and in the loose they were poor .
How many tries did they score during the championship !!!
Posted 13:37 20th March 2013
keste03 says...
@CymruAmByth - my mistake. got the two tries mixed up, but had another look at the turnover - and it does seem that Owens is not supporting his own bodyweight - probably what Rowntree is referring to. However, it wouldnt have changed the outcome of the game in any way.
Posted 13:33 20th March 2013
jappers1983 says...
Thank cymru, i believe owens was the tackler so the 'gate' rule doesnt apply. Even so, england are not effective at clearing out. This was a case in point.
@chubbylugs the robshaw penalty you talk about.....robshaw wasnt pinged, it was marler who, as the tackler, didnt roll away. So in that respect the decision was correct, and by not rolling away he is helping robshaw. Basics, really.
I'll say it again one more time, but englands main issue is inability to clear out at the breakdown. The jackal-er has every right to continue playing the ball if
a) he isnt played off it, taken off his feet, is no longer supporting his bodyweight
B) ref calls hands away
England need to learn clean ball at the ruck isnt a right; you have to earn it by smashing whatevers in the way, and not just doing a bit of ruck-inspecting.
Posted 13:22 20th March 2013
vaizpatu2011 says...
This idiot is the worst ref in the whole wide world.
Posted 13:20 20th March 2013
TVaddict says...
Ok, how about I put a positive slant on this. I am so certain that the referee impacted the result on the weekend, but instead of whining about it, how about this. I bet that the next time two times England and Wales meet, and it's not referred by Clancy or Walsh, England will win comfortable (7 plus). If they don't then I'll donate ?50 to charity each time. This way I've made my point and if I turn out to be wrong well great as a charity gets some money.
To be quite frank, a few selection changes (which I stated before the match) and I think England would win comfortably this weekend. I find it hilarious how quickly Wales go from zero to hero. I said last year I'd have no respect for Wales until they beat one of the big three and as they still haven't they deserve no respect. In fact, their record with the SH in general is embarrasing lately. The fact they can crawl through a few games against weak opponents and raise their game once a year for England says so much about their negative mind set, 'Beat England and that's enough'.
Until the nations involved in the 6 nations start to regularly get victories against the big three the 6 nations will always be a second tear competition in terms of rugby ability. England, Ireland, France and even Scotland have managed results over the last few years. Time for Wales to do it's share of the work for a such a 'great' team.
Posted 13:07 20th March 2013
JamieTheProp says...
Wew were well beaten by a better scrum! Walsh is a joke but on this occasion he gave the 50/50 decisions to the dominant team - which I think is right!
Every prop tries to gain an advantage in every scrum - it is the job of the opposition prop to stop him!
Our guys will only learn from the likes of Jones and Jenkins - all my best lessons came from guys better than me!
Posted 12:32 20th March 2013
makemehappy says...
Regardless of who you support, you have to say this game flowed well. For that Walsh must take credit. So many of the 6N's games involved poor rugby and died at the hands of the ref.
Posted 12:32 20th March 2013
Spartacus says...
Wales fans - yes we know you won and deserved it BUT there were refereeing issues that need sorting out regardless. Nobody is trying to take your little trophy away!
For me, the turning point was when Walsh decided that he would blame England for any issues at the scrum, and made this clear to the players. This gave Wales carte blanche to drop the scrum at will and get penalties. Not acceptable and not a contest. It left England unable to have a crack at sorting out the scrum.
Posted 12:23 20th March 2013
davodiablo says...
Watched the game again on Sunday . Steve Walsh had an exemplary game . I don't like the way this article is written . The last paragraph is written to stir up nationalism .
Posted 12:19 20th March 2013
lacroix says...
funny how he didn't complain about some significantly more obvious refereeing failures during the game against france .
this reflects very badly on rowntree and the england set up however he goes about it. shouldn't be talking to the press about it at all.
england got thrashed by wales and since they were extremely lucky to scrape a win against italy, and got a lucky break or three against france it really isn't a great shock that it happened.
i think rowntree is also wrong about robshaw- england lacked leadership against wales- they failed to adjust to the momentum shifts in the game, or respond to the referee. their bench was dreadful and they had no plan b- or were unable to activate it.
Posted 12:17 20th March 2013
chancer says...
I still do not understand why SH refs are participating in the 6 Nations, there is no doubt the interpretations of the laws of the game used every week in NH club/province games are different to those used by SH refs. This can only lead to confusion in the minds of players. In the recent games Joubert and Walsh have both made some bad calls. Admitedly England benefitted from bad calls when playing France, refs will get decisions wrong sometimes but for the penalty count to be so one sided is beyond belief. The allowance of all players speaking to the ref must stop, my understanding is that only the captain is allowed to seek an explanation of a decision. The ref is not there to be popular or forge a relationship with players on either side, he should remain a figure of authority with consistent application, currently we are not getting any of this. If fans watching on Television can see obvious mistakes which are also visible on the big screen then surely there should be a way the 3rd ref could intervene. Having said all of this Wales deserved to win, England are guilty of the same faults as France selection of players out of position and some who are not capable of basic rugby skills.
Posted 11:42 20th March 2013
Trinats2 says...
Not a Pom whinging, surely not, shock horror !!!
"Wales dominated both areas as they surged to a record win over England"
Nuff said.
Posted 11:41 20th March 2013
sneggy1983 says...
How come Stuart Barnes congratulate Walsh on a good performance keeping the game moving , no complaints in the scrum etc. Then you have others clearly bitter they lost and looking for someone else to blame. Not one pundit critised the ref after Sat. Even Phil Vickery stated that Wales basically battered the English scrum with no complaints. There is a case with Ken Owens turnover but i can see how Walsh deemed it to be a fair turnover. Think the English need to look at themselves rather than trying to blame others. If Wales went on refereeing mistakes they would have beaten Australia 2-1 in the summer, because quite frankly Jourbert had a nightmare. Also you didn't hear France complain about their defeat to England when clearly Tualigi try shouldn't have stood.
Posted 11:29 20th March 2013
CymruAmByth says...
Err, @ keeste03... Check the video, I think owens was a tackler , therefore DOES NOT need to go through the gate!
Posted 11:20 20th March 2013