With the excitement building ahead of 2013's visit to Australia, we decided to pump up the volume by introducing a regular British & Irish Lions watch!
Every three weeks or so Planet Rugby will update its leaderboard for who should pack their bags, who should keep the diary open and who should stock the fridge with a few beers, pizzas and ice creams for soaking up the tour on the couch, as the most coveted of selections fast approaches.
We must stress that long-term injuries have been taken into account for our calls. However, those nearing a return to action are accommodated.
Here we go - make sure to give your feedback.
FULL-BACKS
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Mike Brown has been the form full-back during the early-season, with his ability to offer a threat in the first line of attack as well as at the back priceless. Meanwhile Leigh Halfpenny's goal-kicking makes him a certainty for boarding the plane.
On standby: Rob Kearney, Alex Goode, Lee Byrne
Best make other plans next June: Ben Foden, Stuart Hogg, Rob Miller, Delon Armitage
WINGS
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Alex Cuthbert and Tommy Bowe have been in amongst the tries so far this season while Chris Ashton and Tim Visser provide power and speed for Saracens and Edinburgh respectively. George North also makes the cut right now but will need a solid November Test series and Six Nations to hold off those players on standby.
On standby: Sean Lamont, Andrew Trimble, Simon Zebo
Best make other plans next June: Ugo Monye, Keith Earls, Charlie Sharples, James Simpson-Daniel, David Strettle
CENTRES
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: These six pretty much wrote themselves into this squad as Jamie Roberts, Brian O'Driscoll, Manu Tuilagi, Brad Barritt and Jonathan Davies have been consistently top quality. Owen Farrell may be included as a 10/12/13 so he sneaks in.
On standby: James Hook, Anthony Allen, Ashley Beck, Darren Cave, Scott Williams, Dom Waldouck
Best make other plans next June: James Downey, Paddy Wallace, Gordon D'Arcy, Jordan Turner-Hall, Fergus McFadden
FLY-HALVES
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Let the comments commence. Jonathan Sexton is widely rated as the favourite to start but after Gatland's mention of Jonny Wilkinson - to go with his pain of 2001 - we bring in Toulon's form 10. Dan Biggar has overtaken Rhys Priestland.
On standby: Toby Flood, Rhys Priestland
Best make other plans next June: Ruaridh Jackson, Ronan O'Gara, Danny Cipriani, Charlie Hodgson
SCRUM-HALVES
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: 2009 saw four nines make the trip so on form we have Danny Care and Greig Laidlaw. If Mike Phillips can keep his head down in Bayonne then both he and Ben Youngs should hold off Lee Dickson and possible bolter Paul Marshall.
On standby: Lloyd Williams, Lee Dickson, Paul Marshall
Best make other plans next June: Conor Murray, Richard Wigglesworth
NUMBER EIGHTS
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: A tough one here as Jamie Heaslip played his first match of the season last week but should get back to form in a few rounds. Nick Easter seems to have Conor O'Shea and also most of the English press banging his drum so these two pip David Denton, Thomas Waldrom and Ben Morgan. It will be very interesting to see who Wales go for in November as Toby Faletau has fallen down the pecking order while it was interesting to see Ulster originally name Stephen Ferris at number eight for their game with Castres. We like a possible 6 Dan Lydiate/Sean O'Brien, 7 Sam Warburton, 8 Ferris axis.
On standby: Thomas Waldrom, David Denton, Ben Morgan
Best make other plans next June: Peter O'Mahony, Jordan Crane, Toby Faletau, Andy Powell, Richard Baxter
FLANKERS
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Depth aplenty here for Gatland as England captain Chris Robshaw, Wales skipper Warburton, Irish powerhouse O'Brien and the aforementioned Ferris seem to just about have the edge over Ross Rennie, Justin Tipuric and Tom Croft (who ruled out playing in the November Tests recently but should soon be back firing in club colours). Tom Wood has already made his rugby return and could make a surge this year.
On standby: Justin Tipuric, Ross Rennie, Tom Croft, Dan Lydiate
Best make other plans next June: Phil Dowson, John Barclay, Alasdair Strokosch, Andy Saull, Rob McCusker, Tom Wood
SECOND-ROWS
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Two guys who made it to South Africa and two newbies make our cut for lock. Paul O'Connell and Alun-Wyn Jones are likely to muscle their way in while Courtney Lawes' performance was dynamic over the weekend against Glasgow. Leicester's Geoff Parling is a real workhorse who impressed a great deal during the tail end of the Six Nations and in June. Donnacha Ryan has that lock/back-row string to his bow.
On standby: Donnacha Ryan, Richie Gray, Nathan Hines, Mouritz Botha, Ryan Jones
Best make other plans next June: Bradley Davies, Al Kellock, Donncha O'Callaghan
HOOKERS
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: It doesn't look as though any rivals will budge this trio of Dylan Hartley, Rory Best and Ross Ford out of their international starting spots before Gatland sits down with his pen and paper. Tom Youngs is the possible bolter here.
On standby: Matthew Rees, Richard Hibbard, Richardt Strauss
Best make other plans next June: Sean Cronin, Tom Youngs
PROPS
Kiss the wife and kids goodbye: Good strength for the B&I Lions up front and that will be vital against a Wallabies line-up that has long been associated with weak scrummaging. There's no doubt Australia has improved in that department of late but with Dan Cole, Adam Jones, Cian Healy, Gethin Jenkins and possibly even a return for Toulon starter Andrew Sheridan, this is one area Gatland and his coaching staff will be targeting for points.
On standby: Tom Court, Andrew Sheridan, Alex Corbisiero, Mike Ross
Best make other plans next June: Euan Murray, Mako Vunipola, Allan Jacobsen
By Adam Kyriacou
@PlanetRugbyAK
Comments
makemehappy says...
Anyone seeing beyond Halfpenny at fullback at the moment? Looks a big odds on with his kicking and the Kearney injury.
Posted 23:48 31st October 2012
TVaddict says...
@APV1
Yeah, true. I still think the
6) Robshaw
7) Warburton
8) O'Brien
is a good idea. They're all good on the ground, O'Brien is a great ball carrier, Robshaw and Warburton are lineout options, and they can all pass+tackle to an international standard. Plus the more leaders in the team the better. We can then have Ferris on the bench covering 6&8 for great impact at 60 mins.
To be honest I think they're are loads of back row combinations that theory be great, so I think it should be completely dependent on who's in form come the tour.
Posted 20:35 23rd October 2012
APV1 says...
I just thought I'd add a little bit more to the Back-Row debate. We always seem to get bogged-down by the numbers on the backs of their shirts (let's exclude the Saffas for a minute, as they're a little confused) and what role each should play.
This has led to comments such as, "how do you consider robshaw as a 7 when he is a 6 at best" and similar.
Now, I think we all agree that the Hill : Back : Dellaglio combination was pretty darned good. It's been argued that it was the best combo in the world in the early 2000's and it's also been argued that it's the best combo ever. But that's a different debate. My point is that we all respect their back-row prowess, regardless of whether they were the "best" or not.
So does anyone else remember Richard Hill's Ruck and Learn articles? I think the principle stated is more important, especially for a B&I Lions tour, than the numbers on the palyers' backs:
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,,16017_6971148,00.html
Posted 15:32 23rd October 2012
admack says...
As a Scot I am surprised at Lamont being an outside bet... he is pants
Posted 13:17 23rd October 2012
new_j4a says...
@Sincero still leaping on spelling errors while adding a few yourself? You really do have an inferiority complex about your education, don't you? (DCU?). I was surprised to see you on a thread discussing a team where the racially and morally pure Irish will be packing down with English and Welsh players, but then I suppose that it's okay because no Leinster player will be sullied by selection due to the Anglo-Welsh conspiracy that passes for the coaching staff.....or do you think they'll take BOD as a mascot?...or a tackle bag?
Posted 10:26 20th October 2012
TVaddict says...
@jmckenna92
An established Welsh team beat an almost brand new English team with a bit of luck and a bad tmo decision, and you're using that as your argument? And anyway, winning the 6 nations hardly makes any of the big 3 quake in their boots. When was the last time Wales beat any of them?
Wales have lost to Australia 7 times in a row now. England won their last two encounters and have never lost more than 4 times in a row. Scotland have won their last two encounters and Ireland won their last encounter with them.
I guess we'll have to see this Autumn how everyone performs. I'm expecting Wales to crumble further, Ireland to do well, England to do ok and Scotland to get their typical one excellent result.
Posted 01:04 20th October 2012
jmckenna92 says...
@tvaddict Wales won the six nations and have better players than england, simple as
Posted 19:01 19th October 2012
TVaddict says...
@jmckenna92
You don't think England have to players to compete against Australia, but Wales can? When was the last time they won compared to everyone else?
I actually think Philips in general is a very poor scrum half, however he seems to find his form for the big matches so I'd be ok with him going.
Warburton in top form is one of the best 7s in the NH, however he hasn't been in that form for a while and will struggle to while being constantly injured. Tipuric is better at the breakdown, but Robshaw is a better tackler, a better leader with better handling much better stamina. Basically, Robshaw is better.
Flateau and Heaslip are so overrated at international level, they only just beat Easter in my book.
I agree Downey could making it if he plays well for Ireland in the coming months, but then again Barritt is better defensively.
Though given the prejudices of the coach I'd predict that the final XV will probably be something like:
1) Healy
2) Best
3) Jones
4) Gray
5) Lawes
6) Lydiate
7) Warburton (c)
8) O'Brien
9) Phillips
10) Sexton
11) North
12) Roberts
13) Tuilagi
14) Cuthbert
15) Kearney
16) Rees
17) Jenkins
18) Cole
19) Ryan
20) Ferris
21) Care
22) Farrell
23) Halfpenny
For the record I'm very against the idea of a national coach coaching the lions.
Posted 12:46 19th October 2012
Irishzimbabwean says...
jmckenna92 - my one concern about Warburton is his injury record. Since the RWC I am sure he has played no more than ten games, and not finished all of those. The Lions need a captain for the whole tour and not just the first test. I have a feeling there could still be room for an Irish or English captain - especially to balance out the Welsh backroom staff.
I would not refer to APV1 as an "Arrogant Englishman" - his missives are always tongue in cheek!
I am astounded by how many contributors are downplaying the BOD effect. Almost certainly the First Test backline will be Phillips, Sexton, Roberts, BOD, North, Bowe and Kearney.
Just watch BOD peak for the Lions - anyone who saw the Second Test between Ireland and All Blacks in Canterbury will know that BOD was his usual world class self that day. The man is a force of nature (like Stephen Ferris) and the Lions will want him on their side.
Posted 11:36 19th October 2012
APV1 says...
@ jmckenna92 - I'll accept that I am biased towards England and readily and regularly admit as much. Why is that an issue? Surely, as long as Gats and his selectors aren't, then we can be as biased as we like.
I SUPPORT ENGLAND, BATH AND THE B&I LIONS AND AM BIASED TOWARDS THEM.
There. Is that good enough?
But why the insults? Are you so devoid of the ability to have a bit of a debate that you have to resort to insults?
I have no issues with alternative views and, indeed, welcome them. That's what makes these threads such fun. But to resort to insults just makes you look like you can't cope with debating. Which is obviously not correct, because once you'd managed to get over you little hissy-fit, you actually started to make sense.
I will also change my mind, especially in light of the Autumn Internationals and 6N. That's when we'll be able to see the best of the 6N teams compete with the best in the world. And then we'll watch the best of the 6N teams against each other. That's when the debates will really hot up.
We'll also, unfortunately, probably have injury to add to the "in-form" considerations.
So in answer to a couple of your questions:
I'd have Armitage at 7. No bias needed, he's the best NH7 at the moment. I think Robshaw offers more than Warburton at the moment - we'll wait and see. I agree the 8 debate is a good one.
Kearney and Brown should be contending for the 15 shirt - again, let's wait and see. But it's Brown for me because I'm biased.
Tuilagi in the centres offers a heck of a runner and I'd have him there.
Personally I think Marler offers the most around the park and, as we all agree, the Oz scrum isn't the big issue, it's their mobile forwards.
But it's Gats and his team who'll make the decisions, so I can select my granny at 10 and yours at 4 and it'll make absolutely no difference whatsoever.
@ Irishzimbabwean - I aim to please!
Posted 10:15 19th October 2012
Irishzimbabwean says...
APV1 - your posts are reliably entertaining. Keep it up!
jmckenna92 - I think you have almost got it.Would just suggest Ford over Hartley, Parling over AW Jones and Jonny May over Wade.
Posted 06:24 19th October 2012
jmckenna92 says...
outside bets,
E. Murray, D. O'Callaghan, Denton, I Henderson, G Laidlaw, Biggar, S Williams, Visser, Hook, all really good players but havnt performed to the best of their ability or may just be to early for them to be considered. All players stated have unreal potential for club and country I hope they have game time in the 6Ns hope Declan Kidney changes Ireland backline, James Downey should come in at 12 with Marshall, Sexton, Downey, BOD, Bowe, Trimble, Kearney as Irelands back line. D'Arcy should retire from International rugby as he is done
Posted 02:31 19th October 2012
jmckenna92 says...
PS in the back row delima Ferris, O' Brien, Warburton, Lydiate are better than any other 6's or 7's in the game for the BIL. Robshaw is close by but Tipuric must be considered ahead of Robshaw for his power at the breakdown and superior ball handling. Dont care what anyone says Warburton will captain BIL and will be assume end of he is a class act. At 8, Flateau, Heaslip and Morgan will battle it out the later being unsuccesful because of fitness and the fact the other to actually do more around the park apart from carry the ball which is crucial against a less powerful but mobile Wallaby forward line.
Posted 02:22 19th October 2012
jmckenna92 says...
@AVP1 your so biased towards Englands its not even funny! how do you consider robshaw as a 7 when he is a 6 at best, Warburton is twice the captain and Tipuric is bettar than Robshaw, plus why is Rob Kearny not in your 15 he is easily the best full back in contention for the B a I L atm. Why would you consider Ashton and Visser over Bowe, North and cuthbert for the wing spots. You clearly are just another arrogant english man that thinks the english players are better than they are after just half a season playing international level. Let me just remind you, Half the Welsh and Irish team i mentioned are fully fledged Internationals and deserve their spots, the english players make up the squad there is no question of their possible talents but their arrogance that hartley and tuilagi showed they are not ready to be team players. O. Farrell and Wade have real potential but need more england game time, cole is a shoe in for a starting spot or a bench spot along with care who is the 2nd best scrum half behind philips atm. My team starting 15 and 22 will change according to the best players in the 6Ns, i hope hogg, trimble, henderson, henry, strauss, biggar, turner hall prove me wrong i think they are exciting players that can make things happen, turner hall if he improves his offloading game could be a real assist to tuilagi who should defo be a tourist because of his versitility and capability to provide something different. I basically feel England do not have the star players apart from care and cole to compete with Australia atm!! ARGUE WITH ME IF YOU WILL. ALL OPINIONS VALID UNTILL PROVEN OTHERWISE!!!!
Posted 02:14 19th October 2012
APV1 says...
Well this is fun! How long until the tour..? Such a fun hornets nest to poke.
@ heart_of_oak - I think he needs to be on the pitch, so it depends who else they pick in the back row.
@ Kent - I'll consider a North debate, but Phillips is more of a liability than Hartley, Ashton & Armitage (D) combined!
@ jenksbaj - thank you - I always need your permission for my stupidity. You set the bar...
@ blametheref - and The baaBaas too, eh? Stop beiung a killjoy. We all like it - look at the excitement already - and so do the players (for and against). You're more than welcome to ignore any Lions-based threads and not watch it. Personally, I'm enjoying the debate and looking forward to the tour.
So there. Ner-ner-ne-ner-ner.
Posted 19:00 18th October 2012
jmckenna92 says...
Props: Cole, Jenkins, Healy, Jones
Hookers: Best, Rees, Hartley
Second R: POC, AW Jones, Gray, Lawes,
Flankers: Ferris, O'Brien, Warburton, Lydiate, Robshaw
No.8s: Faletau, Heaslips
Scrum Half: Care, Philips,
Out Half: Sexton, Priestland, Flood
Centres: Roberts, BOD, Davies, Tuilagi
Wing: Bowe, North, Ashton, Wade, A Cuthbert
Full Back: Kearny, Brown, Halfpenny
14 Welsh, 10 Irish, 10 English, 1 Scottish
Posted 18:36 18th October 2012
letthekidsplay says...
@melkdave do you honestly think people will take you seriously when you only have two tightheads in your squad? laughable!
Posted 18:36 18th October 2012
TVaddict says...
At the end of the day the welsh team have had their chance to prove themselves against Australia time and time again, and failed. Scotland, Ireland and England have all beaten them. I don't believe it's a huge difference in quality but more a difference in mental strength, however, whatever the reason the bulk of our players have to come from the teams that have beaten them. So with my preference going from left to right:
I'd take:
1) Healy, Jenkins, Marler
2) Best, Ford, Hartley
3) Cole, Jones, Ross
4) Gray, Toner, Parling
5) Lawes, Ryan,
6) Croft, Ferris, Lydiate
7) Robshaw, Warburton
8) O'Brien, Denton, (Ferris)
9) Care, Marshall, ???
10) Sexton, Farrell, Burns (My outside bet)
11) North, Bowe, May
12) Roberts, Barritt
13) Tuilagi, Davies, Joseph
14) Cuthbert, Ashton
15) Kearney, Brown, Halfpenny
Posted 18:01 18th October 2012
jmckenna92 says...
@ArmchairGeneral what english players do you think could make the matchday 22 for the lions? I just dont see any cutting edge with the english players apart from cole at the scrums who could challenge Adam Jones for a starting spot and maybe danny care if he keeps out of trouble and gets more international game time. Tuilagi, farrel and flood are to predictive and robshaw is not a better 7 than sam warb or justin tipuric simple as. I am not anti england players if some of the younger players put in big performances during 6Ns they will be in with a shout like Wade and Ben Morgan.
Posted 17:57 18th October 2012
chubbylugs says...
@scot_rsa
i thought forum etiquette would stipulate that leaving a winking smily face might indicate i was taking the piss
but by picking more scots are you not relying on a chance of rain to ensure victory? ;-)
If i were to pick the RG type of player at lock, id pick croft first. however, i think the aussies need to be dominated up front first rather than play too loose
Posted 17:11 18th October 2012