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The British & Irish Lions
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Comments
kingdumber says...
Surely admitting the Boks deserved to win at the start of my comments is being a gracious loser. The extent of my comments about Burger were because that is what the article relates to.
Countryboy ¿ I agree with your comments about both teams crossing the line at times and the Burger incident being in a separate category.
McGoo ¿ where do I start?
I did not engage in any abuse or nastiness. It is your sort of post that irritates me and lets down the SA fans ¿ petty and defensive at the first hint of criticism.
¿I think it is so sad you are so desperate for a win you would take it against a 14 man squad¿. All I did was point out that we do not know what would have happened if Burger saw red. You say nobody in SA is defending Burger but for PDV. Surely you should all be actively criticising Burger (rather than the act of eye gouging) as he could have left your team with 14 men for 79 minutes........
Cornerflag ¿ I agree. Initially I was thinking that with the series over, the last test could be a disappointment but hopefully the game will be more open for this very reason¿¿.
Posted 15:01 30th June 2009
cornerflag says...
Kingbumber,
Mate, I really hope they go for that all out attack you're suggesting. Ellis Park (or I believe it's now named after the capitalists) is a sweet venue for that type of game. Perhaps this one will go down to the wire as well and get decided in the dying moments with a try...would be killer.
Posted 14:26 30th June 2009
mcgoo says...
kingdumber says...
Yet more abuse, the reasons th Boks fans have not been able to celebrate is because of the nastiness from people like you. We are proud of our team and its players but do not condone what Burger did. If you read the posts on any of these websites you would see that every single fan does not dispute what he did was disgusting.
As per PDV, again if you ask most fans none of us wanted him as the coach but he is and we have to deal with it.
As for the eye gouging there is noone who disagrees with you and you right if he had been sent off then the Lions could very well of won, I think it is so sad you are so desperate for a win you would take it against a 14 man squad.
Also the issues about the other incidents were in relation to the thuggery comments about the Boks and was never comparing it to Burgers actions. So please get over it.
Enough of the slanging and name calling I agree with Cornerflag lets look at the positives and look forward to another thrilling game on Saturday.
I for one would have loved to see a win or draw for the Lions as would have made it an amazing game to watch this coming Sat
Posted 13:20 30th June 2009
countryboy says...
kingdumber you said "What is up with you SA fans? I have read many comments on blogs and have yet to find a SA fan who is gracious winner (Sanzarian being the closest). "
well I have yet to find a Lions fan who is a gracious loser (an exaggeration of course, just like your statement).
With the exception of PDV's ramblings I have yet to hear any SA supporter defend Burger. His actions were inexcusable and I wouldn't be fussed if he was banned for years, not weeks.
No, it's the ongoing bleating about the foul play by the rest of the Springboks which shows a lack of grace in defeat. Both teams played hard, tough as nails rugby, both teams crossed over the line numerous times into foul play (Burger's madness is a separate issue). Get over it and get on with it. Two great test matches (and hopefully a third).
Posted 12:53 30th June 2009
kingdumber says...
Rational discussion from a Boks fan - yippee.
Think it will be Flutey but would like the Lions to be more adventurous and go for Earls as the only chance we have of winning the last test in my view is to score a rakeload of tries by attacking in the backs at every oppertunity.......
Posted 12:43 30th June 2009
cornerflag says...
Kingdumber, interesting thoughts....
I think the reason why the perception is that the South Africans are ungracious winners is beacause they have not had the chance to just enjoy the moment; you know, bask in the glory of a Test series victory. Usually, when you win you have a chat about what went right on the day, the bounce of the ball...etc and you smile, say thank you, crack a beer and start focusing on the future.
Unfortunately this has not been the case for the Boks and their fans. They have been under scrutiny and subsequently were on the defense from the final whistle. We all know why and what happened AND that there was a VERY stupid moment by a good player but it's still sad that the focus shifted so far from the game...it's ridiculous.
In case you have concerns about my sanity, let me make a few things clear.
1) Burger was wrong
2) De V is a terrible spokesman and make a lot of judgement errors - classes in English and diplomacy will serve him well as I often think his weak command of the language is making him say stuff that confuses even his players
3) The Lions had their chances and played good entertaining rugby
4) The Springboks scored tries, fought well and won the series
I suggest we get on with the game on Saturday. Rugby is tough and hard but kind of designed to establish friendships. Let Fitzgerald sulk about Burger. Let Burger feel guity about Fitzgerald. No need for us to have a go across continents.
Who do you reckon will replace O'Driscoll?
Posted 11:58 30th June 2009
kingdumber says...
What is up with you SA fans? I have read many comments on blogs and have yet to find a SA fan who is gracious winner (Sanzarian being the closest).
The Boks deserved to win last Saturday. The Lions were the better team in the 1st half but didn¿t score enough. The Boks scored good tries and crucially were stronger + more composed in the last quarter.
What Burger did was disgusting and could have done serious damage to Luke¿s eyes. The reasons why people are still talking about it:
1) Burger should have gotten red and who knows what would have happened if he was off the pitch for 79 minutes. The Lions scored 10 points in the 10 minutes he did spend off the pitch.
2) How can PDV not say what he did was out of line? It was blatant intentional eye gouging and even though Burger is one of his players and a coach must defend his players, when you cross the line and so something like that, the coach must accept it.
Compare this to Quinlan being ruled out of the Lions tour for gouging. Quinlan made contact with the eyes for a split second (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg28666NFGc).
Burger made contact with the eyes and applied pressure until Lukey pushed his hands away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NYONDg4J_E&NR=1).
Quinlan got a 12 week ban yet nobody claimed he did nothing wrong or tried to justify his actions.
Sheridan¿s tap in the nads of a SA player ¿ it was foul play but sore balls are nothing like the possibility of being blinded, so no comparison. Also, he reacted to intimidation from SA players. BOD was offside for his big hit and he didn¿t wrap him properly but it was a borderline call as to whether it was an illegal hit.
If you don¿t like this website, go elsewhere but learn to be good winners Boks fans or no one will have any time for you.
Posted 11:36 30th June 2009
abrad says...
Let trhere be a lesson here for South Africa. Next time it plays North, please review the tapes and also lodge claims to the citing commissioner within the 12 hour window. By repeatedly not doing so, South Africa seems to have built a reputation of Thuggery.
Posted 09:41 30th June 2009
Sanzarian says...
Oh for heaven's sake, are you still in Kindergarten Mr. Morris? The incident has been dealt with by judiciary committee and an official apology about the misunderstanding regarding de Villiers comments. May I suggest that both you and Dick Anderson roll up your stiff upper lip and get your sore (losing) behinds back to your little island. Planetrugby has ashamedly ruined what was in my opinion and a very good contingent of Lions supporters and they are most welcome. I replied to one of Dick Anderson's Diary entries with absolutely no foul language, but was censored and my post was not accepted. Why may I ask? Was it because I blasted said Mr. Anderson for ill tempered accusations or unjustifiable insults to both the South Africans rugby loving public and their country?
I said it in that post and I will repeat it here (let's see if you allow it this time you cowards), hang your heads in shame! Go home, leave your rugby team and management and brilliant supporters, but during this tour we needed less of you and more of them.
Posted 09:11 30th June 2009
irishlion says...
Hi! Firstly congrats to the Boks on their win. If's, buts and maybes are all redundant. The lions blew it in the first game and ran out of players in the second, unfortunately. The boks did it on the scoreboard. Well done to all, bar Burger. I can't find it in my heart to congratulate a thug.
However, If you think that eye gouging is unacceptable, then do as i did..email the IRB. irb@irb.com They're responsible for implementing/changing rules etc. The length of ban for eye gouging is completely arbitrary and down to each association. There should be mandatory ban for it. 12 months in my opinion as a minimum. I dont seem to remember eye gouging being a big thing in the 80s. we've had 6 incidents that I'm aware of in the last 2 years featuring eye gouging - it will only stop if the IRB get serious about it, or if someone loses an eye from it.
Eye gougers out!! Irishlion
Posted 09:03 30th June 2009
mcgoo says...
Conorlarkin, you have just come up with the most funny message of the week. Firstly if you had been following the reporting the comments about they number of trys is because that is what the Lions argument was in the 1st test - they should have won and were the better team because they scored more. Secondly pot calling kettle black me thinks after all didn't one of the Lions miss this tour because of ete gouging.
Your rudeness is a very sad state of affairs, the Lions were just as guilty of thuggery on Saturday the difference being the Boks sucked it up and got on with it. I do however agree taht there is no place in rugby for eye gouging but tehre isn't one nation who can say they haven't had a player sent off for it.
Also bringing up our history is a low blow and shows your ignorance.
Posted 08:04 30th June 2009
conorlarkin says...
paultony...Lions and supporters are not sore losers. Games are not decided by number of trys scored. If this was the case then the Lions won the first test. See how stupid you are? The point that escapes you is that eye gouging and other deliberate tatics designed to injure and opponent have no place in any sport let alone rugby. As a nation of disgraceful history, you would better serve your country by trying to set a better example instead of perpetuating an image of thuggery that is such a memorable part of your past.
Posted 03:04 30th June 2009
countryboy says...
Seriously, what is the problem with Planetrugby? Your biased and one-eyed reporting is embarrassing. Sure PDV is a bit nuts, but your line of writing since the second test has been shameful. Obviously you are gutted the Lions lost, but how about showing some professionalism and impartiality?
The Italian skipper gets the exact same ban for the same offence on the same weekend and nary a word written? The hypocrisy of this website and the British Press in general is staggering.
Posted 00:14 30th June 2009
Mark42 says...
I've followed rugby since the age of 6 in 1981 and i've never heard a press conference like the one the afternoon by de Villiers. He has basically ligitimised gouging people in the eye. What do The south african rugby union make of this, how on earth can you sell rugby to youngster, "ooh you may lose the sight in your eye but that's part of the game". I dare not ask what he thinks of stamping on people at the ruck.
Lions players need to get protection goggles and tu tus at the ready then.
Posted 18:39 29th June 2009
paultony says...
I have never seen such a bunch of sore losers like the Lions. These guys will do anything to save face. Firstly, keep in mind that is was 3 tries to 1. That should say it all in terms of who was the better team. Instead, they try to steal the glory away with the Burger issue. Yes, it was wrong of him to do it, blah blah blah. But come on guys, you are turning this into a witch hunt. Do you really think that the Lions are saints?. Take a look at the footage again, and you will see some very deliberate dirty (Red Card, Citing) play from one of the Lions. Here, I will give you a helping hand: in minute 61 and 43 seconds (61:43) Lions number 17 fists Springbok number 18 in the groin. Very very very bad. This is the same play that was harassing Bakkies Botha throughout the game.
Come on guys, get a life.
Posted 17:15 29th June 2009
abrad says...
OK Guys lets quizz 'graceful' Geech on Sheridan's punch O'driscoll shoulder knock and oh yes that very dangerous high tackle on Burger...This is sloppy jouranlism. If Div knows his player would not have done so intentionally then so be it. The boy was cited, sentenced and we move on.
Here is a different story. Edwards said in his page it should have been a red card and so did 'Graceful' Geech. It smells very much to me like the best way to get the attention away from the real issue on the loss is by putting someone on trial. And boy is that whar is happening. It is beginning to sound likethe Iranian prime minister seelking to put Britian on trial for his own internal problems in Iran.
Lets look at the facts. Lions 1 try, Boks 3 tries. all the other points came from penalties and conversion. If South Africa did not miss its chances so many times at the uprights, the Lions would not even have been in with a shout. Geech and particularly Edwards have seen his defence slashed very elegantly. and repeatedly...so guess what, lets put someone on trial...Schalk provided that. But Mr Morris as you are so passionate about Justice, why are you not reporting on the above incidents which were potentially very dangerous as much as the Eye contact was? And let us hear graceful Geech and Edwards respond about their players.
Posted 16:55 29th June 2009